Dogs getting along
Hi everyone! I see most people on here have multiple NK, so I am hoping to get some advice or read other peoples stories.
It's been rough with our 9 month old Hokkaido and 3 year old Shiba. They definitely got off on the wrong paw and in 5 months it's much better then it was at least. We got a trainer who explained that we need to desensitize the Shiba by having them around each other but not fully interacting just yet. They have been nose to nose a few times and our Shiba will go between kisses and snarls and even took a small chunk from the Hokkas nose, that was scary! But it's healed very nicely!!
Has anyone had similar issues?? What helped the situation for you? And how long did it take for them to just be okay?
Our Hokkaido just loves the Shiba but he is very much in your face type of puppy
It's been rough with our 9 month old Hokkaido and 3 year old Shiba. They definitely got off on the wrong paw and in 5 months it's much better then it was at least. We got a trainer who explained that we need to desensitize the Shiba by having them around each other but not fully interacting just yet. They have been nose to nose a few times and our Shiba will go between kisses and snarls and even took a small chunk from the Hokkas nose, that was scary! But it's healed very nicely!!
Has anyone had similar issues?? What helped the situation for you? And how long did it take for them to just be okay?
Our Hokkaido just loves the Shiba but he is very much in your face type of puppy
Comments
Some dogs might be okay going nose to nose with other dogs, but it is very rude in doggy language, and from what I've read of Shibas.. they do not tolerate rudeness. So although your Shiba gives kisses sometimes, dogs getting face to face isn't a very natural thing unless there is confrontation. Asking them to go nose to nose is kinda setting them up for failure in a way, even though you mean well.
What I would work on is learning your dogs body language and working on them ignoring each other. Remember it all starts with a dirty look. Once you see that evil shiba eye it is time to get them out of that situation.
How do you guys currently train ? Are both dogs present ?
Our trainer had us bring both so he could see how they are. He said luckily it's not as bad as we think, he worked with worse. He has us have them in the same room together but not able to get to each other.
He also said to put a comfortable and humain cage muzzle on the Shiba to them used to interacting. This way the Shiba cannot bite but he is able to pant and move his mouth. But not all day obviously, just 20 mins at a time. And make it a positive experience. And waking together was a big thing, to make a pack.
So far it's been a slow but positive change
It is the Hokka who is instigating. The Shiba is trying to correct the Hokka for his rude behavior, yet the Hokka continues to push the Shiba.. This is partially a puppy thing, most likely. I would honestly focus on training the Hokka to ignore the Shiba, reward him for looking anywhere but the Shiba, try to keep the Hokka's attention on you, make yourself more fun than the Shiba. Maybe train a 'touch' cue for your Hokka, so if you see him running for your Shiba you can tell him to touch and he runs to you, avoiding the Shiba ?
However I do think this is a puppy thing. So time will help. Maybe up the exercise so he isn't as interested in playing with the Shiba.
Edit:
How does your Shiba react to other dogs ?
One thing we started doing was taking the Hokka to doggie day care a few times a week, this wears him out and gets him the interaction he craves from other dogs, and gives the Shiba a break also.
I think you are right, we just need the Hokka to ignore the Shiba and not bug him. I don't care if they ever play, I just want them to get along okay, that's it.
The biggest thing you need to have is patience, don't rush things even if you think they are going good. Give both the pups their space, and try to give the pups opportunities to experience good things together such as walks and fun outings. They don't have to interact to have fun together, and over time they'll start to get the idea that the other dog isn't so bad.
Do not give them an opportunity to have bad experiences together, and especially avoid arguments and fighting at all costs. The more times they argue, the greater likelihood that they will think that that is the way it has to be.
My situation was complicated by dogs in heat, and so he and my oldest (a male Shiba) genuinely began to hate each other, and started growling and peeing on each other, so I rehomed the Kai into a single dog home before any big fight could occur, where he is very happy and enjoys play dates with female dogs.
The experience helped me learn to better manage my adults and youngsters, so the adults are never made to spend face to face time with the puppies. I also made a puppy yard, and made a safe place for the older dogs to exercise without crazy puppies in their business. When inside, I keep the young dogs in their own area of the house and that allows the adults to chill where they want. When outside, I do a leash drag on the young dog so I can correct them for jumping up on the adults or ideally step on it to prevent them from getting that close in the first place. That allows everyone to have space.
Since then, I have integrated other puppies successfully, going slow and steady, something I wish I had done better with the Kai. They can all be together, and the youngsters stay out of the adults faces, and the adults are allowed to have time on their own.
I was tickled to observe (for the first time) several months ago my oldest male Shiba wag his tail and do a happy face and lick when one of the young dogs who had been absent for a week returned. Ike was happy to see him
You have made me feel better!
We have been doing the long leashes so they can move around without touching each other, it's been a good way for them to slowly get better with each other. They do great on walks, they sniff each other's behinds but we don't allow for more then that because we know we have to be patient if we want it to work!
They also play tug of war with long toys and do great with that also.
We figure it will take a good year or so for them to be loose with each other
And it doesn't always work. We also tried the same thing with my Shiba and AA and they had one bad experience: the Shiba bit the AA puppy on the nose. And my AA never forgot it. They simply were not able to adjust. It's partially because the Shiba is pretty reactive, and every time he saw the AA he snarled and lunged, and so....now we have to keep them separate (like, they can't even see each other--the AA broke a window once trying to get at the Shiba). Of course, also the size difference is a problem; we're aware that the Shiba could be very badly hurt, so we have to be extra cautious (they have had a couple of other scuffles due to management failures, and luckily, the Akita is very soft mouthed, so though he did bite the Shiba--after being bit first!--he didn't hurt him).
We have another puppy coming soon, another Akita, so we'll have to do this all over again, but I'm also going to try to work with the Shiba a bit more. He's since gotten used to our Kai (same very very slow intros!), and while they don't play, they do hang out together (studiously ignoring one another), so there is hope!
So take it slow, and hopefully, you won't end up with the ones that really can't live together.
We started out with the crating of one at a time, our trainer told us it's important that they spend time in the same room together.
Luckily the Hokka just adores the Shiba, even though he has been a bully. He rolls over to the Shiba and sticks a paw out to him since they can't reach each other. He has also brought toys over to the Shiba.
Luckily we are being very patient and we are willing to put in all the work it takes!
I appreciate the feedback from all of you!
Something I have noticed with Shibas in groups is that in order for group running them together to he successful, they have to have that constant exposure and the expectation instilled in them, of "everyone gets along or else", and the groups have to consist of compatible dogs and ages. Some Shibas genuinely go out of their way to fight and seem to enjoy doing it. I imagine this is true for Akitas and some of the other breeds as well.
Sometimes I wonder how out Hokka compares to others
your mileage may vary lol ... sorry but i don't think i have met a mellow shikoku yet. and problem is they are fearless.
Jesse
You should add one to your little bunch!
That way I can complete my NK badges:P
Jesse
Sorry, off topic!