Critique My Dog
I'm hoping to turn this into a learning thread on Nihon-ken conformation. Judging faults and strengths is something I'm curious about.
Feel free to add your dog to this thread, but please only post pictures of your dogs or pictures of dogs that you have been given permission to post.
This is meant to be educational and the whole point is critique so be warned faults will be pointed out. Mentions of faults should not be considered attack on your dog. While this is of course going to be subjective, try to remain as objective as possible.
Posting a side and a frontal shot is preferred (guessing here, someone with more experience please correct me if there are better photo angles).
First up, here's Ajax.
Feel free to add your dog to this thread, but please only post pictures of your dogs or pictures of dogs that you have been given permission to post.
This is meant to be educational and the whole point is critique so be warned faults will be pointed out. Mentions of faults should not be considered attack on your dog. While this is of course going to be subjective, try to remain as objective as possible.
Posting a side and a frontal shot is preferred (guessing here, someone with more experience please correct me if there are better photo angles).
First up, here's Ajax.
Comments
His eye LOOKS like the illustrated standard, as far as my eye can tell. And his color seems really rich, without being oversaturated. I think he looks like a nice, quality Shikoku.
But I'm not a Shikoku eye... so as far as really in-depth breed stuff, I dunno...
Not a great example of the breed, and I know what I think his merits and flaws are, but I have been dying for someone to pick Cuchulainn apart... how's my Kishu Ken?
Here's his FB album for more images: https://www.facebook.com/pg/akiyamakishu/photos/?tab=album&album_id=869764089796899
@Crispy Likewise, I’m really no expert on Kishu Ken. From a general structure standpoint, however, he looks like he’s got a nice neck that fits well onto his shoulders. I think it could be stronger looking, but I know he’s a lanky adolescent dog right now lol. Shoulders like they are set a little high, but he’s got a pretty nice upper arm compared to a lot of NK I’ve seen. Not sure how his front compares to the Kishu standard though. His back looks a bit roachy and from the second picture you posted it almost looks like he’s got a herring gut. I don’t know if that’s just a funny pic though. Is his tailset a little low? I’m not sure exactly how the Kishu tail is supposed to look. I think he’s not a really nice turn of stifle, length of second thigh, and a rear pastern that’s proportional to his height. Toes look well arched and strong. I do think he could use more overall substance for a male, but it could be his age.
(Please do tell me if I completely failed either of these evals haha)
Here’s my Hokkaido bitch, Yuki, if anyone's interested in evaluating her. She’s between 12-16 months in these pictures:
Here's her page on my website for more pictures (scroll to the bottom and there's a gallery): http://apricityhokkaido.weebly.com/yuki.html
Personally, I think Cú is a little overangulated for the standard, but balanced. He also has about 0 Kishu head type, lol. His shining traits are probably his coat, his feet, and his overall structure/balance, imo. His ears are decent, I think. An improvement on some of our other dogs with similar ancestry in the US, anyway. He is only about 16-17 months in his photos and about normal mass for a young dog, I think. He does have a slight roach at the moment, made worse by some of his posture. It isn't visible when he extends properly or stands straight. I'm not sure if his tail is set low, but it is an appripriate shape, and I rather like this sickle vs the curl, which can get too tight too easily. Judging at shows found that judges really liked his character and movement. They didn't have much to say about anything else.
@LexterGrace - I am assuming it is her age, but she does look very lean and long legged compared to other Hokkaido I have seen, and something about her looks thinner in general. I cannot tell if she is overextended in her back and that is why she looks like she is sloping toward her rear, or if that is normal for her. I think it would be useful to know the standard you are using. I am not familiar with DOKENHO, but she definitely has different type than the dogs I have seen (imports or the offspring of imports.) I am sure her head will fill out in the next year with maturity. I like her tail-- it reminds me a bit of Meitou's, though his is looser. I know in NIPPO, a looser curl or sickle is desired, and the tail should not lay flat on the back. Is it the same for Hokkaido? I am looking forward to seeing her mature (like with Cú...) What did judges say about her?
I guess the tail was one thing I didn't catch on Ajax @Ajax - it Is sort of flat on his back. Did it get any comments when you were showing him? Did he, I general?
I mostly reference the DOKENHO standard since that seems to be the most detailed one for the breed. However, I'll frequently pull stuff from the NIPPO, FCI, & UKC standards as well. She's European bred and only registered with AKC & UKC. Personally, I'm not a fan of the UKC standard though :P
I think the chest thing is normal? All of my dogs have elbows below their chest...
Hokkaido, female, between 9 & 10 months in photos, and apologies she's soaking wet in two of them but they're the most recent I have. She's running fat at the moment (for me anyway, she's very food orientated and it's been a learning curve to get her amounts correct) and isn't mature yet, but it's still interesting to know opinions!
(this one is older - taken early may between 8 and 9 months old, but it shows her expression better than those photos above).
I used this NIPPO diagram and overlaid it on top of Ajax since he's standing so nicely.
http://nihonken.blogspot.com/2011/12/nk-forehindquarters.html
I think his angles are close, but from this one photo, he doesn't give a lively impression as he's not standing on top of his forequarters and his rear legs are set up a little too under him. He's not 'claiming his space' in Western parlance. He is a youngish dog?
His tail is curled too tight. They said the curl should be such that an egg can pass through the center of the curl.
The wet coat is actually a benefit in seeing underneath the coat. Unfortunately, she's carrying quite a bit of weight and it's hard to get past that first impression.
ie. If a person thinks of the breed's historical role as a hunter, could they visualize Kirin as capable of doing the task?
@LexterGrace I think Ajax's rear angulation is close to the standard, but personally I like a little more angulation. On that note, while I think it is more than the standard, I really like Yuki's rear angulation. Her color is also very nice. Her white is pure and she even has a black nose. Overall she looks well balanced, though more lithe than most Hokkaido's that I've seen.
@Six Unfortunately you are correct, she is overweight and that makes here body hard to judge. I do think she has a really nice expression in the last photo.
@ayk In those photos he was almost 14 months old. He was tired in that photo. That was taken at the comparative judging in the afternoon after we had been walking around the show grounds since the morning. I didn't bring a crate and it was part of my plan to compensate for my inexperienced handling by tiring him out in order to get him to stand still. It pretty much worked. He might not have been standing completely perfect, but he was standing better than I could have hoped. He actually has a fairly lose tail curl, you can see that better in the second photo, his flaw is that he holds it too far forward making it lay too flat to his back.
@Ajax - Thanks for the terminology! Cuchulainn has a really dramatic tuck, but I think that may partly be his age. Kishu also seem to have a higher tuck or deeper chest than Shikoku? Not sure. TK's tuck isn't nearly as dramatic, tho they are about the same height and Cuchulainn is getting to be about the same weight. I'm also really fond of his color. I never, in a million years, thought I'd ever have a red Kishu... and it might be novelty and favoritism, but I'd love to keep his color in my lines, if not improve upon it...
I also overlaid the NIPPO illustration Ann linked to on Shigeru's blog to one of Cuchulainn's most recent photos... Now I just need to do one for Toutarou... and the girls, but I'll wait on the girls for when Fionna's coat comes back and Nami's done with her litter.
Seems as though he may be a little overangulated in the rear, if we consider that his rear legs are tucked under him a little. Not horribly.
I think his head is really his biggest issue, so I hope breeding him to a more typy female will help return his pups to something closer to standard, there. It seems to have worked with the Fionna x Toutarou litter...
Can someone explain to the total novice over here where the angulation lines would fall on the 'perfect' example? Should the lines fall in the middle? Or to the front, or the back...
I also think @Ajax is being kind, lol. His back end, especially at 5 and 6 ( @aky pointed out) will be over-angulated, if he was standing correctly. I think the front angulation is off, too. He's overangulated or too long in the upper arm, there. The point between 1 and 2 is lower in the ideal than it is on him.
I did the same thing for Bubba (aka Akiyama no Roushya Daikokuten go), who is under-angulated by comparison, IMO. But Bubba looks sort of unbalanced right now because his front is very straight (a common issue, I think) while his back is nearly ideal.
and another shot of him...
One thing to note is while I could simply overlay the image entirely, with its proportions intact, on Cuchulainn, I had to crop it and take just the front and rear and line them up with Bubba...