How much time is to much time outside?

BradA1878BradA1878
edited May 2008 in Kai Ken (甲斐犬)
Kona loves to be out in the yard, he will come in with the other dogs but then 5 minutes later he is ringing the bell wanting to go back outside.

We usually don't just let him out whenever he wants to be out, but he is kinda irritating when he is inside because he rings the bell constantly, and it gets louder and louder.

Most of the time the other dogs are just chilling inside w/ us and we are just sitting at our desks or on the couches... so there is really no reason why he can't be outside...

We just feel like bad dog parents just leaving him in the yard, even though he would probably prefer we do that.

So my question is, at what point are we being "bad dog parents" when it comes to leaving him in the yard?

I mean if he would rather be out there it seems like we are being unfair by keeping him inside.

[just to be totally clear, we are not talking about leaving him our at night or while we are not home, we are only talking about when we are here and can keep an eye on him]

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Comments

  • kwyldkwyld
    edited May 2008
    Kohji looooves to be outside and on really nice days, I leave him out most of the day. The only time he doesn't like to be outside is at night by himself or when it's wet out, otherwise he likes to lay on the deck or in the dirt where it's nice and cold next to my shed. He likes to watch for squirrels, cats, birds and whatever else is lurking in the woods. I think with this breed, it's good for their wellbeing to be out in the sunshine and laying in the earth and running and playing whenever they want outside. Just like you guys, I never leave him out if I am not home though. Leaving him out to exercise will keep him in excellent shape too.
  • HarlowHarlow
    edited May 2008
    If he wants to be outside and you feel safe having him out there without supervision, I think you should let him out. If he knows that he can go out whenever he wants maybe the novelty will wear off. That's what I would guess if it was a Shiba doing this.

    We used to leave a door open so our Malamutes could go out as much as they wanted and now our Shibas have a dog door and can go out at will. The Shibas usually go out to get "sun energized". That is to lay out in the sun until they are well toasted and the leap up, shake and run into the house.
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    I don't think thats a bad thing at all. He is a dog after all!
    Our shibas prefer to be indoors, which is fine with us, but they like their walks and dog park time, too.
    Our basset foster on the other hand LOVED to just be outside, and our fence was secure at that point and we just let him be out there as much as he wanted. I didn't think I was a bad dog mom for it, its what he wanted, he was safe out there, monitored, and enjoyed his time.
  • dlrobertsdlroberts
    edited November -1
    I agree. If he prefers to be outside, then unless you have cause to be concerned about his safety there is no good argument that I can think of why shouldn't be out there. Does he spend much time out there by himself? It may be that if he's out there by himself he'll loose interest quickly and want to be around the other dogs. Although, I can think of an extreme case where he spends all his time away from the rest of the pack that could be detrimental to your pack dynamics.
  • baantonbaanton
    edited November -1
    Dogs need to be in their natural habitat, which is the great outdoors, as much as possible. I don't think he needs to have you with him every moment for you to be a good "dog parent", either. Just like those teenage kids I've raised, dogs need their "alone time" to just be a dog and do what dogs do. When they're with us they are so busy being people pleasers, it must be a strain on their psyche! Anyway, as long as he's safe (can't get under, over or around the fence, etc.) being outside will be very very good for him.

    And as you say you know keeping a watch on him is important, of course, because of everything from wild life (coyotes, etc.) to dognappers. (I heard here in smaller towns in Northern MN there have been incidents of dogs stolen from yards, etc.-- theory is to sell for drug money or lord know what!)...
  • LeonbergerLeonberger
    edited November -1
    If you're confident he'll stay out and out of trouble, and if he really likes it that much, I think it would be ok for him to be out for a bit longer than the others. Now the others might want to join him or something...
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    edited November -1
    Ok, well I think you all agree. lol. :o)

    I agree too, my feeling is the same - if he wants to be out why not let him.

    To answer your questions, yes, he loves to be out by himself... he just lays there and watches - I think that is his job now.

    Now I just need to convince Jen that he can spend more time outside! I think its hard for her to let the baby birds leave the nest.

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  • GreensageGreensage
    edited November -1
    I am with Jen on this one. Not that you cannot trust your dog, it is just the constant feeling that something can happen that can play on you. Besides, being indoors is hardly a prison environment.

    I find that Rudi wants to spend more time outdoors by himself the older he gets but right now I have baby chicks running in and out of the flight areas because they can currently fit through the fencing. When Rudi goes out I have to walk over to the chicken coop and shoo them back in every time. Eventually over the next few weeks the chicks will not be able to fit through the fencing and I won't have to worry about them.

    Rudi has not charged them even though he sees them running the fence line on his side of the fence, but I do not want them to get hurt or killed. I want them to become adults and have a full and productive life. So Rudi has to be completely monitored right now for a while.

    Rudi is strange. He does not charge back into the house without an incredible amount of coaxing. Then when I shut the door he wants in, when I open the door he just stands there; so I think he prefers me to be out there with him. Silly dog. Sometimes I think I need a Boot-O-Rudi machine to get him pushed to come in when he wants to come in. It is almost like he is leary of me standing in the doorway with the door opened. Very Shiba I think LOL

    Ron
  • baantonbaanton
    edited November -1
    So below is a quote that presents an argument against leaving Kona outside to his own devices for very extensive periods of time:

    I found this on a site about Japanese dog breeds. I was exploring because my daughter (in Japan for a short trip) asked me if a Kai Ken could be white... I said "no, most likely would be Hokkaido or Kishu...", but I also found this information:

    "... Most native Japanese breeds are known to be very quiet dogs, only barking "when there is something to bark about". Although they have a history of hunting dogs, they need to be raised in-doors, as member of the family. When left unattended in the backyard, they tend to develop "personality" problems and become very destructive. They are highly pack oriented, thus, isolating them from the pack (i.e. owner and human family) causes them great stress."

    I think this helps explain the separation anxiety we see with Josephine. Most likely as much about her breed as her having been lost as a puppy.


    Are there hokkaido or kishu dogs in the U.S.? Do any of you have one or the other?

    Maybe no breeders here?
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    edited November -1
    That is a good point, and I kinda tested that theory tonight following what Kelly posted. We let the pups out to use the bathroom tonight and when we called all the pups inside Kona didn't follow [this has been the case recently]. So I shut the door and left him out in the dark for about 5 minutes. I opened the door to see if he would come in and there he was sitting on the door step waiting...

    I guess Kais don't like the dark! [or being away from their pack].

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    As for the Hokkaido and Kishu, we have one member on the forum that just recently got a Hokkaido from Poland and one member that recently joined that has a Kishu. There is one breeder of Kishu in the states and no breeders of Hokkaido in the US [but two Hokkaido breeders from Poland are members of this forum].

    Here is Jamie's post about her cute little Hokkaido girl:

    Kangai the Hokkaido

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    Kai-Ken can be gold but not white.

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  • baantonbaanton
    edited November -1
    Hey Brad, thanks so much! Now I remember the Hokkaido thread. My daughter wants to take pics of Japanese doggies, but I hear in Tokyo they may scarce as hen's teeth. She's going to some of the smaller cities next, so you never know. I'll share if she gets some nice pics.

    Kona may be just acting like that teenager that he is, and distracted by all the exciting scents and sounds of the great outdoors! Josephine is minding much better the older she gets, although there are times we can tell she would rather not follow her fearless "pack leaders" (humans), as she comes reluctantly and with a turned head!
  • okironokiron
    edited November -1
    The only thing about Japanese breeds needing to be raised indoors is, I have NEVER seen a dog raised indoors in Japan besides shit-zus, chihuahuas and other tiny breeds. I'm not saying they're living the ideal life, just saying that realistically, the country of their origin does not raise them indoors. But to the defense of at least the people I know personally, none of us just leave the dog to live a full life alone in the backyard. None of them had socialization problems, anxiety or aggression issues. Most of them had a mate to keep them company. Gen and Momo got more attention than most dogs in the US who do live in the house.
  • ljowen123ljowen123
    edited November -1
    As long as Kona is happy, still interacting with the pack, and under supervision - I think it's fine to let him be outdoors. Prior to Jazz - all of my dogs were outdoor dogs. My husky spent the first six months inside as I trained him, but after that he spent his entire life outdoors. You've provided an excellent area for him to be in and he's just enjoying the space.
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