Training with Nihon Ken

edited June 2008 in General
Training of a Nihon Ken

Wait for that right class to come open and pay fees….$80
Travel (gas) to get to the LKC (weekly)………………......$15
Treats, New Collar……………………………………...........….$35
Commanding your dog with no response……………....Priceless

All kidding aside, Jazz is doing okay on training. She got the most improved award last night – mainly for her “sit”, “leave it”, and controlled (paced) walking. She got bonus points for doing a sit, stay (unhooked leash), and spin – she won’t do the spin on-leash. We are working on the following: sit, stand, walk, down, spin, bow, leave it for commands and controlled walking. Last night in training, Jazz would not bow or go into a down position. In fact, Jazz looked at me like I was crazy. The trainer who has worked with Shibas before – just laughed. She asked me if Jazz did play bows and I told her of course Jazz did that – she just not going to do it in front of a crowd.

My question for you guys…what commands were the hardest for your Nihon Ken to learn? Did they ever learn them? Was it a patience thing or did you come up with a cool way to trick the dog into doing what you wanted?

Comments

  • edited November -1
    You really, truly are not alone in this. Nothing like asking your dog to do something, offering them a delicious treat and having them look at you like you are retarded for implying that they might do what you say, when you say, especially in front of other people!

    I think the hardest thing for Nemo was a "sit/stay" because he always wanted to lay down after a minute, and a "stand/stay", as he did not trust people walking behind him, and if I would even lift my hand to scratch my nose he would sit. Nemo is really food motivated, so after about 8 weeks (of 26 consecutive weeks of obedience) he was able to focus on me a lot better as I would always carry the good stuff.

    Nemo only does "leave it" at obedience. If I say it outside on a walk he starts chewing really fast and jumping backwards away from me. *sigh*

    At least your trainer understands.
  • edited November -1
    I believe I offer the comedy at training. I've been working with Jazz on stay longer than anything else. Her first command was "carpet" - meaning go to the carpet in the living room so I can open the door. It became stay once she learned to go to the carpet - now I can open the door and talk without her running up to the door. I've had her almost 9 months and it's a command she's got down pat.

    Jazz is all about the treats - she'll sit if I have a treat. Without the treat, it's iffy, very iffy.
  • edited November -1
    omg, I so feel your pain, as I'm sure many, if not all, of us do!!

    "leave it" is a 50/50 shot depending on the value of the item coveted...
    sit/stay was much easier to conquer in our home than stand/stay, we still are working on that with our two (Hachi isn't doing much training yet)
    and we didn't train bow, rather "say prayers" where they do a bow on an elevated object, like a chair or couch, and only Kitsune can do it well when asked, Tsuki is very, as brad details Loa, "ants in the pants" and wants the reward asap or there is no praying. :)

    consistency and a never ending supply of patience and sense of humor are all I can offer! She'll get it, but only when she feels like it. Jazz seems low key enough where she will probably be more accommodating once it becomes routine for her. What are your ultimate goals for Jazz?
  • edited November -1
    My ultimate goal is for Jazz to become a therapy dog. I volunteer at least twice a year with the Victory Junction Gang Camp (a Hole In the Wall participator). I'm amazed at how kids (no matter what their health situation) light up when seeing a dog that wants to be loved on - Jazz is such a lover, I believe she will do this well. I have also just joined a local animal guild and one of their focus points is going to schools and talking with children about how to act with dogs, how to play, how to treat, and what is good for your dog. I believe we have to train children how to treat pets or we'll never stop the cycle of abuse.
  • edited June 2008
    Training classes to date; $200
    Training equipment: $100
    Toys: $100
    The embarassment you feel watching your dog pee on everything in sight at PetSmart: Priceless.


    Ronan and Tasha are both very, very good at obedience with the following exceptions:

    Tasha - if someone ELSE has food. Not great at front and finishes. Over anticipates commands. Long sequences aren't for her - she starts to try every trick in the book and becomes frustrated - food must be given every couple commands. Highly food motivated - not toy driven at all.

    Ronan - if someone ELSE has a squeaky toy regardless of the five I'm holding, if there are other dogs, if there are people he hasn't greeted, won't come when called if he suspects there's no toy to be had. He knows more commands and tricks than Tasha and executes them with precision. Not food driven at all. Highly toy driven (um, maybe obsessed is a better word).
  • edited November -1
    LMHO!! Jazz loves the food - varies on the toy - depends on how high pitched the squeak is, I guess. Jazz's biggest distraction is other dogs - she doesn't like them. I'm hoping class will lessen this. can you do "leave it" for other dogs?
  • edited November -1
    I've worked on that - 'leave it' around other dogs. Tasha is PERFECT - she'll flat out ignore them as though they aren't there, regardless of how hyper they are or how much they bark. Ronan - not a snowball's chance. He wants to go running right up to the other dog. The only times I've been able to get Ronan to pay attention to me instead of other dogs are if he's overwhelmed by how many there are. We went to a dog festival last month and there had to be over 100-200 dogs.

    Ronan loves other dogs except he's horrible at greeting them. Frankly, he's always been rather rude, which sets off the other dog, which sets off Ronan. The dogs he does best with are opposite sex, submissive dogs, although he seems to really like Huskies and Mals. We think it's because they look like Tasha to him.

    He met a Shiba at the dog fest, a male. Ronan was okay (but he was exhausted). He sniffed the dog's shoulder and wagged his tail. There must have been some body language I didn't see, because the Shiba went ballistic, which surprised Ronan.
  • edited November -1
    A lot of times they have you train with a "watch me" command for getting your dog to look at you instead of surrounding dogs. It can be used for any distraction though once it is learned.
  • edited November -1
    I'll begin trying that at the meetup this Sunday. Jazz is so picky about who she'll accept in greeting her. Some she's fine, others not so much. Which dog festival - the one in Suwannee?
  • edited November -1
    I like the idea of a "watch me" command - do you start with calling their name to get their attention?
  • edited November -1
    This is the basics of it:

    http://www.doggroups.com/dog-training/item/3

    Have your dog distracted, get it's attention, eye contact, "watch me", and treat.
  • edited November -1
    our dogs know "look here" and we started by saying their name, then the command. Our progression of that is name, sit, look here.
  • edited November -1
    I have to say that while Tasha is the more willing dog and easier of the two to train, Ronan is stellar if you can keep him focused. His placement of paws and legs and his movements are amazing. He's truly energized. If he'd had a REAL trainer instead of me (and someone who could spend hours every day with him), Ronan would be fantastic at: Rally Obedience, possibly Flyball (gotta work on ignoring other dogs), & definitely Canine Freestyle (he already has some things down pat). Not so good at agility since some of the tunnels and things spook him too much.

    Tasha would have been show queen: drop-dead gorgeous, prissy, excellent temperment, ignores other dogs, fluid movement, incredible handler focus.

    Tasha isn't a problem solver. She wants you to tell her what to do. Ronan is very good at problem solving and will figure out ways to do things his way.
  • edited November -1
    Just read the article, we'll begin working on it tonight.
  • edited June 2008
    My dogs know the concept of Watch Me. Tasha does this without even commanding it - she knows when she's working and she's all about focus.

    Ronan understands it, but ignores it if there are other dogs. I started training him with Watch Me by holding a favorite toy to my face - getting him to place his focus there. I've since dropped Watch Me and just use their names. If I call their name, I expect them to 'Watch Me' and wait for another command. Too many commands in a row. Ronan, Watch Me, Sit. Or just Ronan, Sit. I like the second way, although for field work or guard dog work, Watch Me would be crucial, I think.

    Toys, food, nothing works if there are dogs Ronan wants to be around. It might be something he gets better with in time and in all fairness, he's very young and unneutered.
  • edited June 2008
    Hard or soft? Which is your dog?

    Tasha is a 'soft' dog. Ronan is more hard than soft, say about a 7 where 10 is hard.

    LJOWEN - yes, that was the one in Suwanee. Petapalooza.
  • edited June 2008
    Good point - Jazz knows her name and knows it well. Maybe I should be working on the length of that focus. She'll look at me when I call her, determine if there's something in it for her and then look away. When we are in class, she stays pretty focused on me. I need to work using her name more at home and work on focus time.
  • edited June 2008
    not sure I understand the hard or soft question?

    I almost went to the petpalooza, but it was after my 5k and I was in pain from the stones. Do you take Ronan & Tasha to dogs parks? I would love to meet a shikoku in person.
  • edited November -1
    I don't take either of them to dog parks - far too many incidents and I'm a very protective parent, LOL!

    I do take them places in public, though. Coffee shops, parks, etc. Someplace that they are always on lead and I can trust other dogs are on lead, too. Not so much in the summertime as Tasha has such a heavy coat and hates the heat.

    Yes, you'll have to see my little Ronanator. I'm very proud of the exciteable boy.

    A soft dog will quit if they've got someone who trains them as though they were linebackers. A soft dog is like instructing a young child. Lots of repetiton, lots of praise. Bumps or taps for physical correction, escalating only if absolutely necessary (although it's usually a sign the dog has had enough for the day). Hard: a linebacker or soldier. They like to work hard won't take it personal if you step on their leash or give them a physical correction. Police dogs are made of this stuff. Some working dogs, too. Somewhere in between is like a college professor. you can expect a decent amount and don't have to coddle them, but they'll react or quit if you get too physical or raise your voice too much. They'll ignore you if you're too soft and don't command their attention or they don't think you're as serious.
  • edited June 2008
    I understand completely about the parks. You might want to check out our meet-up group. In July, we are meeting at Best Friend's Dog Care in Norcross (it's air conditioned - we've got several ladies that are pregnant...I don't want there to be any heat complications). I've rented the location for that Sunday afternoon for our shibas - most of the the time we meet at dog parks, but I'll let you know when we are doing something off-park.

    I guess Jazz would be a medium - she doesn't listen to the kids when they try to command her (she looks at them and laughs maniacally - in her head).
  • edited November -1
    Michelle - it is interesting to hear your descriptions of Ronan. Kuma is a younger Shikoku (10 mos) but also loves his obedience and is very good with his footwork too. Incredibely precise and accurate the majority of the time. He is more of a soft personality though than hard. He is midway between food and toy motivated - but in new places loses the food motivation. He also is incredibely smart at learning new patterns and performing them to precision. I have not tried agility but I too think that he would be spooked by some of the equipment as he is not always a brave dog.

    It is interesting to train him since my previous dogs (Siberians) were more of a "hard" dog and fit your description above whereas Kuma really needs praise and soft commands. I also take all my dogs to places like you do, but not dog parks.

    Have you competed yet with Ronan (eg, Novice or higher?). My obedience instructor says that Kuma is by far the best in the class (mainly boxers, GSD, Goldens) and wants me to go ahead and start competing with him at some point. She is very, very interested in a Shikoku as her future dog.
  • edited November -1
    Edgewood - No, I don't have any competition plans for Ronan, although at one time I thought we'd do some canine freestyle. He sees it as more play time than regular obedience, and he's just so agile. Ronan can walk backward & does a nice little wave, he can bow, and has no problem with me walking over him. In Ronan's last obedience class he was NOT the best in class... he was far too preoccupied with the other dogs. He was the best in his puppy class though and at 5.5 months of age got his Canine Good Citizenship.

    Ronan loves praise as well, and as long as the training is 'fun' he'll give it his all. But he's definitely self-serving - the reward and the training have to be all about him. Tasha is more of a dog willing to please, hence why her focus is much better.

    If you think agility would be great, take a look into Canine Freestyle. I think you'll see it fits the Shikoku to a T. There aren't any other dogs (usually) to distract them or cause them to be reactive, it's play, it's work, it requires some fancy foot work, and it's a way to really bond with your pup.

    Ronan and I have a small routine to "Mr. Big Stuff'"
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