Dominance Biting

glacierglacier
edited July 2008 in Behavior & Training
I've noticed that Tengu is being very dominant with me. Whenever he wants me to do something, like give him the treat/toy/food I'm holding, or if I pull him pack on the leash away from a dog, he puts his mouth on my hand, arm or leg, and tries to pull me down. he then starts applying a slight pressure, then growling and increasing the pressure.
one time I brought him to our play meeting, and one of the owners had a little kid with them. I warned them to keep her far away from Tengu. but when the owners' back was turned, she walked up to him despite my warnings. he suddenly lunged at her, knocking her down and grabbing her shoulder in her mouth. so the kid starts crying, and this freaks out Tengu. so I'm thinking that this might turn out bad if I don't do something, so I grab his jaws and growl. he lets go of her and growls at me. after that I never brought him to the play meetings again.
Do you think this is something I can handle myself, or does he need more professional rehabilitation? It seems pretty serious, since he just keeps on adding more pressure I relent.

Comments

  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    edited November -1
    I don't really have any Akita experience but this sounds serious. I'd think about contacting the rescue you are fostering him for to see if they would pay to enroll him in some obedience class, or possibly their thoughts on the entire situation.

    A lot of dogs can be mouthy when they are trying to get someone to stop doing something, but knocking the kid down and grabbing her shoulder is a pretty scary situation.
  • glacierglacier
    edited November -1
    the rescue says that they can't afford any formal training for him. they were shocked to hear what he did, they didn't know he was this bad. they told me that he would probably not be suitable for adoption even with training, but welcomed me to give it a try. they also said that they're looking for a trainer that would be willing to work with him or foster him.
  • dlrobertsdlroberts
    edited November -1
    I'd have to agree. As you've described it it sounds pretty serious to me as well. There's a difference between being mouthy and trying to control a situation with your mouth. Your dogs should never ever put their mouth on a human to control the situation. Especially with a breed that has a bad reputation like an Akita, that is only a recipe for a disaster.

    As for whether or not you can handle it yourself, I can't really say. Its always a good idea, if you can, to work with a professional though. It is a LOT harder to deal with behavioral problems in your own dogs. Since you live with them, you can become complacent with their actions and miss subtle signs that would be very obvious and important to someone who knows what to look for.
  • sujewelsujewel
    edited November -1
    Are you fostering from a shelter or an Akita Rescue? It is serious, but realize that an Akita that wants to bite out of aggression, will. Tengu is giving you a warning, IMO. He doesn't see you as the pack leader and is teaching you how to behave properly in his pack.

    What do you know about this dog? Was he a surrender or was he found wandering? If you are fostering from a shelter, call your nearest Akita Rescue see if they will take him into an experienced foster home.
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    Also, if you are fostering for a rescue, most licensed professionals work with rescues that have their federal 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation for a discounted or free fee, you just have to find the right professional.
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    edited November -1
    I is a serious situation regardless of breed or size. Seek help and get advice from a professional. Even professionals seek help from other professional trainers to get input. The thing about training canines is you can not see everything from the standpoint of handler and caretaker. There are things you will just miss. An objective view is good.

    Usually trainers will reduce the cost for verifiable rescues.

    Good luck
    Snf
  • glacierglacier
    edited November -1
    I just know that he was an owner surrender, their reason was size and bad with kids. I'm fostering from a spitz rescue, and they do have a non profit status. they're searching for someone to work with him right now. I'll try contacting an Akita rescue too. this is way more than I can handle by myself. I'll keep you guys posted on how things go.
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    edited November -1
    Well I am not gonna be able to add to much - and I agree with everyone that this is serious and you should seek help... pay for it yourself if you have to and want to continue to foster Tengu since it will help keep you safe too.

    I will say that this is actually a common enough thing with Akita that there are little stories about why they do this. So an experienced behaviorist should know about this type of thing in this specific breed.

    With Akita its all about respect and positive reinforcement. I'm not saying you would do this, but I highly recommend you don't try to dominate that dog with force or you will be bit. He is already telling you he is ok with biting you.

    ----
  • JessicaRabbitJessicaRabbit
    edited November -1
    I have to say, I would be very concerned. Please do seek professional guidance on this one. And trust your gut. If you have a bad feeling, respect that. You clearly care for his well being, but do not let your good intentions put you or others in harms way. The incident with the child makes me particularly nervous.
  • glacierglacier
    edited November -1
    The rescue found a trainer to work with him for free, he's gonna have the first session this weekend. meanwhile I was advised to keep a muzzle on him most of the time. it seems to help too, since he can't bite me with it on and seems to understand that. strangely enough, he's never tried to bite Sasha. I'm working on leash walking too, using treats to get him to stay by me. I talked to the trainer on the phone, and he recommended using a prong collar on Tengu to increase my control over him. but I'm not sure about that, it seems that with one lunge Tengu could puncture his neck or something. have any of you ever used a prong collar before?

    Brad- I'd never use force to dominate any dog. with a small dog it generates fear, with a large dog it generates danger.

    And I just found out what Tengu's name means- a kind of japanese demon. how ironic.
  • sujewelsujewel
    edited November -1
    We use a prong collar when I think we're going to be around a number of dogs. It works well and gives us control over our dogs pulling towards other dogs. The collar doesn't have spikes that could puncture a dogs neck! If it did, it would never be marketable in the US. Head to the store and put one around your arm. You'll find that it doesn't hurt or even pinch, but definitely gives incentive to modify behavior.
  • glacierglacier
    edited November -1
    I got a prong collar for Tengu, it does help to control him. we can now walk by a dog on the other side of the street without him trying to get to it or trying to bite me, though I still use the muzzle. the trainer's coming by on Sunday, right after my scuba dive. also, now he's learning that I'll only give him food if he's in a stable and submissive state. If he lunges I just walk away and won't give him the food. but now that I've disabled his mouth, he's trying to physically tackle me. I usually keep a short leash on him in the house with the prong collar, so I have something to grab onto and correct him. we have a long road ahead of us, but I'm not giving up on him, though sometimes I feel like it.
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