Dog Whisperer Marathon

Sangmort

There is a Dog Whisperer Marathon on the National Geographic Channel today. [ Labor Day ]

I've never watched it before, so I'm hoping it'll be interesting. [ though thus far, I think I still like Victoria [ "It's Me or the Dog" ] over Cesar ]~

tobyshiba

I personally love watching Its Me or the Dog. She gives a lot of incredibly excellent tips, and really knows how to handle dogs. You can learn a lot from watching that show.

Sangmort

Oh yes, it comes on for an hour at 9am every weekday morning. I wake up & watch it religiously

I think I've seen every episode at least 3 times. I jsut wish they'd come out with a new season already ~

CrimsonO2

This isn't the first time I've seen some dog owners not like Ceasar. I personally haven't seen him do anything out of line with his shows. He does give way to some dog trainers out there (though it looks like he's more effective than the dog trainers, but maybe that's just editing).

Does anyone have a distinct dislike for his methods? I'm just curious.

JessicaRabbit

I could go on for a while. .. Let us start with just a few. His program is irresponsible in that it is edited to look like there are quick fixes in dog training. I have personally witnessed people getting injured while putting dogs into submission pose, (and these people have told me it was something they learned from him), this is a maneuver that should only be considered in very very extreme situations and only by well trained people. He uses intimidation in place of training often. And frankly I was sadly disgusted when he did an episode on dog aggressive dogs and his solution for BOTH cases was to place the dogs with him permanently and have them adopt EASIER dogs (what the hell does that teach viewers!!!).

I appreciate that he has helped show pit bulls in a positive light. But working in rescue, I have encountered numerous people who have harmed, been harmed, or given up on their dogs and have prefaced their justification with "Well Cesar says..."

There will always be conflicting opinions on training, and I will go so far as to say that some of his advice is quality. And perhaps I should be blaming his producers more (but it is his face that is linked to it), but there are other dog training programs that very effectively show the amount of work necessary to work past a problem behavior in a dog.

That would be part of why I have a distinct dislike for Cesar Milan.

asia

I am just finishing his book (Cesar's) - have never seen his show, just the previews. His book has a lot of what, but not how. It is a quick read, and I think he has some good points. However, I feel like he scrapes the surface but never gives depth. Perhaps I was expecting too much - or maybe I will get more from the show??

Sangmort

After watching about 3 episodes today I decided I didn't really like him / the show at all. He dealt with a Korean Jindo who was fear aggressive in the house by forcing him into a submissive pose over & over [ by which the poor Jindo fought like hell against him ] After watching his show, I just think there's a better way of going about things ~

TheWalrus

First time I saw one of the shows, I enjoyed it. It was a dog with minor issues, and I thought the show was entertaining. My wife liked the show too, so she ordered the whole first season and his book.

I respect him for his obvious love and dedication to dogs, and bringing attention to the fact that alot of dog issues can be helped by professionals, but the more I watched the more I felt it was just a lot of 'entertainment'. I might watch every now and again, but I wouldn't base the way I work with my dogs off what I see Cesar doing.

Romi

The Jindo wasn't fear aggressive in the house. He just would not submit in the house. He was fine in the house as long as you didn't force him to submit. The owner had it in his mind that if he couldn't get the dog to submit in the house, then the dog wouldn't be safe to adopt out. They ended up keeping the dog as a permanent part of their family after the show.

I don't agree with a lot of the techniques that Cesar uses...but i have respect for him. I watch his show anytime I can...not because I am a fan, but just to learn and see different dog behaviors. I may not agree with all his techniques, but he is pretty well educated on dog behavior and rehabilitation. And you can never learn too much.

Sangmort

Romi, you're right, I don't know why I typed fear aggressive. :x~

Sangmort

I just think you should earn a dog's respect, not "force" a dog to respect you. I think if the dog really respects you, he will submit by himself. I don't know if that's right, or if that even makes sense...it's just one of the random thoughts in my mind. ~

BradA1878

I think that Jindo episode is the perfect example of when Cesar's methods backfire. In that case the owner/foster was the one that needed to be educated and not the dog that needed to be abused like that.

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I used to watch The Dog Whisperer, and would still probably watch it if we had a TV. I have never agreed with his methods, but I do like watching the dogs in the show - kinda like what Romi said. Sometimes Jen and I would watch the show on mute, if you watch it on mute you don't listen to what he is saying and a lot of times you learn more from the dogs.

The thing that gets me with Ceasar is the facts that his methods - the alpha role / pack structure thing - is based on out dated info scientists gathered in the 1950s from observing WILD WOLVES. The info they gathered has been proven to be incorrect and training that stems from it is constantly debunked, disputed, and changed within the canine behavioral community. It also makes no sense to base a line of training and "dog psychology" on some data collected over 50 years ago while studying WILD WOLVES - the fact is he is dealing with domesticated dogs that have been domesticated for 1000s of years.

For example - would anyone argue that a domesticated pig on a farm should be treated similar, and would behave similar, to a wild boar? In that example wild boar have been domesticated for a shorter time than wild dogs and domesticated pigs show EXTREMLY different behavior and family structure than wild boar. So would you base your management and husbandry of domesticated pigs on the way wild boar behave in the wild?

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tsukitsune

wow, that was incredibly well spoken, Brad! *claps*

dlroberts

Excellent point Brad! I agree for the most part that his methods are outdated and dangerous to copy; however, I find that there are certain things he does very well. For example, never touch an insecure dog on the top of the head. Not that anyone in the general public should be approaching an insecure dog, but I have found it useful in the shelter to borrow from his methods when approaching an insecure dog in a kennel---turn sideways, bend down, be calm, and take as much time as it requires to allow the dog to approach you. Also, as much as I hate to sound like an advertisement for him, his exercise, discipline, affection "formula" (where discipline is "rules, boundaries, and limitations") is good advice as well.

In general though, his leash jerks and "touches" are not appropriate for affective training. I took Lucy and Joey for a temperament test at a local daycare and it was clear the owner had read Ceasar's book and runs her daycare according to his practices. During the test, Joey was sitting in the corner a bit unsure of himself when another dog came up and got in his face. Joey politely growled to ask this other dog to back off (which it did). As punishment for that, he was dragged into the middle of the floor by his collar and made to submit. (My blood boils just thinking about that.) I grabbed Lucy's and Joey's leashes, clipped them up, and walked out on the spot. As I left, this moronic owner told me I should read Ceasar's book on how to deal with aggressive dogs. The problem is not that his methods can't or don't work, its that everyone that sees his show thinks they can do what he does. Reading body language from a dog is complicated and nuanced and even people with years and years of experience get it wrong a lot of the time. For the rest of the world that isn't Ceasar Milan, a training method more appropriate to our skill level at interacting with dogs is what we should be focusing on.

tobyshiba

... while at the on-campus bookstore today, I noticed they were selling this guy's book. I doubt i'll be picking it up, but it was amusing that despite how SMALL our library of books we have on shelves for sale on campus, they have a book written by Ceasar Milan. I just rolled my eyes and went to check out.

Romi

I definately agree with you Brad and Dave. I have used a lot of cesar's methods regarding insecure/fearful dogs. The "NO LOOK, NO TOUCH, NO TALK" thing REALLY works. When strangers come into my house, I always tell them to ignore ninja and act as if he is not there. Then Ninja will come and get a quick sniff and go in the next room and lay down. It is a less threatening approach. The turning sideways with no eye contact works very well too. I don't think ANYONE should pet a dog on the head for the first pet. I think they should pet the back or chest first and then slowly move up towards the head. The jerks work for Ninja during walks - but not during one of his aggressive episodes. Loud noises work better for re-direction. The touch thing doesn't work at all either...but maybe im not touching hard enough, but Im not going to touch him any harder.

I am a pretty open minded person and can see things from many different views and understand them. I can take some advice from one person and disregard everything else and fill in the gaps with other information i learned from someone else.

I can understand why many people think that cesar's techniques are cruel, but there is a lot of other stuff he does that works great and isn't cruel at all. I mean, afterall...he has saved A LOT of dogs..and even though we aren't too fond of him...we have to applaud him for raising awareness and helping people realize that owning a dog isn't just fun and games.