I've got a question

edited September 2008 in General
When we purchased Honey we were given a paper that told us how to register her. It was with American Pet Registry Inc. Now, I know nothing about registering a pet for shows or anything like that....but IF I ever wanted to....is APRInc somewhere that would be alright? I was told when I called them that they work with AKC or ACA and it would be fine.

(Again, I'm kinda new at all this and I have NO CLUE what I"m doing.)

Comments

  • edited November -1
    I'm gonna make this a two-for-one post. If you could help me with the above question that would be great, but I have another. Honey is not spayed. I obviously dont know enough about dogs to breed her, but I've been told that females should be allowed to have at least one litter of pups before you spay them (not sure if this is just an old wives tale kinda thing). Anyone have any thoughts on this?

    She IS from a Champion blood line.....so if we KNEW anything about breeding we might think it over. lol
  • edited November -1
    I can't help you with the APR but I can tell you that females do not have to have a litter on order to get spayed. It's just a ridiculous old wives tale. Most vets recommend spaying before the dog's first heat but that's another thing altogether that you should research and talk to your vet about. Honestly I don't see the point of breeding her unless you're planning on being a professional breeder and even then, she might not be a quality candidate for a breeding program even if she's from a champion line.
  • edited September 2008
    Not sure about your first question. But dogs do not need to have a litter of puppies before you spay them. That is a nonsense myth. No offense. I definitely recommend spaying Honey if you are not going to breed her responsibly. There are a lot of different opinions on the best time to spay, but most will say around 6 months is the best time.

    Edit:
    Whoops... Rina, we must have posted at almost the same time. Same line of thinking though. :)
  • edited November -1
    I think I've already decided to get her spayed....but the voices in my head keep saying....but what if...? hahaha
  • edited November -1
    I would spay her at 6 months of age. Having a litter of puppies before being spayed does not give her any health benefits. If you are planning to breed, for health reasons, don't breed her, it's not true. If you aren't planning to breed her and are not on a breeding contract, do not breed her. Even if she has champion bloodlines, if you plan on breeding her, you must invest A LOT of money in getting genetic tests done to be sure she is healthy for breeding and to be sure she produces healthy puppies, along with the stud of course. From what you posted, it didn't seem like you are planning on becoming a breeder or interested in putting her in shows - I would highly recommend spaying her. Breeding should be left to the professionals who breed for the betterment of the breed.

    As for the APR registration, I have never heard of it...
  • edited November -1
    Congrats on your puppy. I know you are new around here so please don't take offense at what I am about to say. I highly doubt that the AKC has anything to do with APRI. If Honey was AKC registered, she would have come with AKC papers. Many registries ONLY verify parentage. Dog A is a Golden Retriever and Dog B is a Golden Retriever, therefore offspring is a Golden Retriever. They do NOT verify quality (The AKC doesn't really either).
    There are a heap of substandard registries that register PETS, and I'm afraid APRI is one of them.
    What are her "champion" bloodlines? Do the dam and sire have AKC titles? Was any genetic testing done on the parents?

    Please read this:
    http://www.dachshundranch.com/AKC_vs_pet_registries.htm

    This doesn't mean you won't enjoy your puppy any less. You've admitted to being a newbie. Spay her. She has no concept for the "joy of motherhood" and she doesn't need to have a litter of pups.
  • edited November -1
    No offense taken from any of the responses! You all will come to see that I'm a very easy going kind of person. I will probably ask a TON of silly questions.......so just hang in here with me folks! hahah Like I said in my first post, I figured the statement "a female NEEDS to have at least one litter" was some kind of old wives tale. And I'm pretty sure (VERY SURE) that I would never breed Honey. I just wasn't sure if there were MAJOR health pro's or con's regarding having her spayed.

    As far as her bloodline.....I am gonna try to scan the paper I was given when we bought her. Beside the names of several Dams and sires are the letters CH. And I've looked them up online and the websites say they are champions. But again....I dont really know much (if anything) about the "Show Dog" world. We didn't set out looking for a "champion" puppy so if she IS from a good bloodline that's just an added bonus! lol! If she's from Champions or not Honey has stolen my heart and could never be any less of a puppy to us.

    But thanks to EVERYONE for the repsonses! I'm sur I've made up my mind on getting her spayed....and thanks Romi! My next question would have been WHEN to have it done! HAHAH
  • edited November -1
    Okay, this is the Pedigree I got when we bought Honey. Not sure if you can read it clearly, I tried to make it larger but I"m not sure if this will work? lol

    If you guys could look it over and let me know what you think that would be great. But like I said.....either way.....Honey's the best puppy I could have EVER asked for! :D

    Photobucket Image Hosting
  • edited November -1
    Am I misreading or is Twin Lakes Simba in the Dam and Sire line?
  • edited November -1
    I see the same thing...
    : O
  • edited November -1
    okay.....so what does that mean?
  • edited November -1
    in-breeding
    : (
  • edited November -1
    Oh boy. :( Is that something that I need to be really concerned about?
  • edited November -1
    At this point, no. She's a healthy, normal pup, right?
    Many breeders do it, but reputable ones strive to not do it.
    Its just a confirmation that Honey should not be bred if nothing else.
  • edited September 2008
    In addition to what Jen said...I might advise not recommending this breeder to other people.

    :)~
  • edited November -1
    I still agree that you shouldn't breed her, breeding should be left to the professionals. I'm not quite as alarmed about the "in-breeding" though. It is something that responsible breeders do on occasion to fix type. I believe they refer to it as "line breeding". It should be used sparingly though and I don't know enough to know if the generations are far enough removed to make it a responsible use of line breeding. Again, that's a question better left for the professionals.
  • edited November -1
    Well WHEW! As long as I dont have to worry too much! And again.......I'm NOT gonna breed her! LOL. She's a great puppy and I dont know enough about OWNING a dog yet.....so I'm SURE I dont know enough to breed her. (It was more of just a "What if" kinda question.)

    But yes, Honey is perfectly healthy. She's been given a clean bill of health from the vet. And you know what? I really didn't care much for the breeder BEFORE this......Just a feeling I got. So I won't recommend him to anyone else.
  • edited November -1
    Sorry, I didn't mean to drive the point about breeding her home any further. I just wanted to make sure my statement about line breeding didn't appear to be an endorsement of breeding her.

    And don't worry bout being uneducated, she'll teach you very quickly. If you have any trouble understanding her lessons, feel free to ask us. We've been there, I guarantee it. :-)
  • edited September 2008
    Howdy and welcome;

    I suggest you look at the links listed below to assist you in your background search about the kennel.

    I don’t want to burst your bubble but Honey is from a Kennel in Iowa licensed by the Dept of Ag as class A. Which means that they breed between 50 to quite possibly 200 animals per yr. (The license number is listed below.) As millers this kennel supplies to pet stores. The Kruse family apparently operates more than one mill.

    The pedigree provided by many millers in the majority of cases is not very accurate and many are forged or embellished.

    Given the pedigree and the above information and also that you are new to the breed, save yourself a lot of grief and spay Honey. Talk to your vet to determine the best time to do this. I would do it before she goes into her first heat (this usually occurs around 6 months). Since she is young she most likely will bounce back within a day of surgery.

    To dispel the myth, dogs do not need to have a litter before they are spayed. (Unfortunately this breed before spay misconception has lead to some of the pet overpopulation and genetic issues that are cropping up.)

    You are fortunate that she is a happy, healthy, puppy and she is quite lucky have you as a mom.

    License info:
    Iowa 5361 42-A-0575 Kruse, Steve & Ray 915 I Ave Ogden 50212


    http://www.idausa.org/campaigns/puppy/chroninvestigations/42b0119.html

    http://www.petstorecruelty.org/how%20to%20find%20out%20more%20about%20breeders.htm

    http://www.nopuppymills.com/


    There is so much good info on this forum, please take a look back at some the discussions about breeders.
    There is also a lot about training etc.

    Good luck and Keep the pictures coming!
    Snf
  • edited November -1
    dlouisroberts.....no problem! hahah I've got the point.

    StaticNfuzz.....wow. I didn't know all of that. I guess it just goes to show you that people will say or do pretty much anything. The person who I got her from represented himself as the breeder. Doesn't look like that is the case now. Because I SURE didn't go to IOWA to get her.

    But you're right. She's Happy healthy and now has a WONDERFUL home where she will have all the love and care she will ever need.
  • edited November -1
    No matter she has a good home with you! : )

    Who knows, the Iowa kennel may be brokering out for others to sell the dogs for them. In many cases a large miller will have more than one location or operation with a different name, some in a different state even. Particularly if they have inspection problems.

    Here's some more info. about stonehenge seen in the pedigree.
    http://www.caps-web.org/view_investigation_report.php?id=38

    It's good to be aware, is my point. I would not recommend the breeder/broker you got her from that's for sure, nor the validity of the pedigree.

    Snf
  • edited November -1
    That's all that matters! A Happy and Healthy pup! You are being a very good doggy mommy! Please don't take offense to our comments about breeding. We are all dog lovers here and take breeding seriously. There are so many dogs in the world who are in need, it just doesn't make sense to breed any more dogs unless its for the betterment of the breed by a professional and not by a BYB or puppy mill for money. (not saying you would do it for money, obviously you were concerned about her health) But there is a lot of misleading information out there and I'm really glad you are asking questions to learn more about your dog. Keep up the good work with your little bundle of joy! You're doing great!
  • edited November -1
    Thanks for the link Static!

    And yeah....guys NO hard feelings. All that matters to me is that Honey is a healthy, happy part of our family. She's a great puppy, a PERFECT fit for us. And if she did come from a mill and has no health issues...then I'm happy I am able to give her a better home.

    I think all dog owners at one time or another have thought their dog could win "Best of Show" or something like that.....and I am no exception. No offense..(lol)...but I think Honey is the cutest Shiba I've ever seen! (I'm sure you all feel the same about your own little guys.) So that's why I asked about her pedigree. Hey she'll always be a champion to me! :D
  • edited November -1
    I just want to point out that a LOT of us have gone through the same thing you are going through and it has made us all hyper-aware [whether via rescue or pet shop/mills]. I appreciate your open mind and thick skin, I know it can be hard to learn about these things. As Patrice pointed out, it is good to be aware, but don't harp on it - just give your pup a great life and spread the word on what you have learned here so we can help stop mills. :o)

    The fact you joined this forum, and asked these questions, shows you care for your pup and will give her a great home.

    ----

    I also want to point out that in the pedigree posted the "inbreeding" is actually "line-breeding" - I would push at least 3 generations out in line breeding, not 2, but that is line breeding [which is technically a form of inbreeding but it is important to understand the subtle difference]. The term "inbreeding" has a "gross" kinda vibe to us humans, but the truth is it happens in the animal word naturally - natural selections clears up any "grossness" that comes from inbreeding pretty quickly.

    *I just realized Dave already cleared that up... but I'll leave mine just for reassurance.

    ----
  • edited November -1
    Thanks! I DO love Honey VERY MUCH! I can't believe we survived so long without her. And I'm SURE I'll have more stupid questions to ask down the road! But hey! If I dont ask then I'll never learn! hahah
  • edited September 2008
    Glad that you were so open to everyone's opinions and what they had to say. I think you're being a great Shiba mommy for Honey. :) She will grow up to be a beautiful Shiba, for sure!

    I actually noticed that similar breeding on my Toby's AKC pedigree, rather far back. I think his Great Grandfather was the same as his Grandfather on the other side ( so great grandfather for the dam and grandfather for the sire ). But, not sure if that really means anything. At first I was kinda upset when I saw it, but Toby has no health issues thus far, so I don't see anything too wrong with it, considering how far back it is.
  • edited November -1
    Line breeding is very common, even with reputable breeders. As mentioned before, it's used to obtain a certain "type". Reputable breeders will make sure to only linebreed animals of superior health, since it will often increase the chances of any health issues. It's so far removed in this pedigree that it shouldn't cause any issues. Hopefully, Honey came from healthy parents. I wish you a healthy pup for many years to come. :)
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