Best training method for bully breeds
I've not had much experience in training with bully breeds, in particular Am Staff-Pit Mixes. A colleague recently adopted a beautiful 1 1/2 year old altered male from a shelter in NY. His name is Barley now, he is a BEAUTIFUL brindle boy.
Bob (the colleague) is looking for a local trainer, but first is looking for an appropriate training method.
Barley is both dog and people friendly, although he likes to be 'alpha' around other dogs (verbatim what Bob told me). His daughter has an American Bulldog male who submitted immediately to Barley when they met this past weekend.
He pulls very hard on lead but its mostly for sniffing in the woods where they walk. The only other issue is Barley's concentrated energy - even though he is walked 5 times a day on 14 acres of land and has a dog run of 3 acres fenced. He has endless energy and constantly is looking for attention. He also said Barley jumps on them a lot for the attention and barks quite a bit for attention also.
I am hesitant to suggest anything specific since I've only really worked with smaller terriers, border collies and spitz types before.
I contacted the NE Bully Breed Coalition on his behalf and they suggested a prong for walking and R+ with vocal positive punishment training.
Is this the best sort of method for the bully breeds? Or would something like clicker training be oodles more effective?
I appreciate the help
Bob (the colleague) is looking for a local trainer, but first is looking for an appropriate training method.
Barley is both dog and people friendly, although he likes to be 'alpha' around other dogs (verbatim what Bob told me). His daughter has an American Bulldog male who submitted immediately to Barley when they met this past weekend.
He pulls very hard on lead but its mostly for sniffing in the woods where they walk. The only other issue is Barley's concentrated energy - even though he is walked 5 times a day on 14 acres of land and has a dog run of 3 acres fenced. He has endless energy and constantly is looking for attention. He also said Barley jumps on them a lot for the attention and barks quite a bit for attention also.
I am hesitant to suggest anything specific since I've only really worked with smaller terriers, border collies and spitz types before.
I contacted the NE Bully Breed Coalition on his behalf and they suggested a prong for walking and R+ with vocal positive punishment training.
Is this the best sort of method for the bully breeds? Or would something like clicker training be oodles more effective?
I appreciate the help
Comments
This tape is old and was made in the late 80's? I wish it was re-released in DVD because it's a great training methodology for attention/approval-seeking dogs like what you described. It uses a kennel, choke-chain, 20-foot lead, 6-foot lead, and 50ft line. Starting with a 20ft lead and choke chain, you'll have that dog on a heel on the first session.
His premise begins with confining the dog in a kennel (like what airports use) for at least 2 hours. After that, training begins. The dog will just be glad to be out of confinement, that the dog will view training as "fun" instead of "work".
David Dikeman's Command Performance
I wish I could use it on my Shiba, but I don't think Ichi's temparment would be suitable for this kind of training. I'm going to use clicker training on my Shiba as I think the food reward will give me better results. Who knows, I'm toying with the idea of doing a hybrid of the two.
I hope this helps.
Jesse
Never ever ever raise a hand or your voice to a pit. They are IMO one of the most emotionally sensitive breeds ever.
Remember the 10 rules of dog ownership that Rachael posted. Most of the time that I see it, it is applied to pit bulls.
Tell him to find a trainer who only uses positive reinforcement and is at home with strong dogs. Are you near Philly? I will ask my girlfriend who is in Philly and runs PInUps for Pit Bulls.
Once underway with the clicker training method the dog/animal really starts learning how to learn. They start thinking about what you are asking them to do. Its an amazing evolution to watch....
Snf
I'm not so great with the clicker myself, I can only get Tsuki to really respond to it but I think I'm going to give him my extra loud clicker that my dogs loathe and KPryor's book that I have. From what I heard, Barley is SUPER eager to please, he just wants the love of his people - so I was out of my element for advice! I'm used to "I'm ignoring you" dogs! At the shelter, I'm usually stuck with the collies and huskys for obedience. So when the NEBBC told me Positive Punishment (which is what they use more at my shelter - since they par fund it), I wanted another opinion from people who really know and sincerely work with them.
So thank you! I'm going to print this page out.
I understand it to be a way to tell a dog you are displeased with what it has done rather than only rewarding for the desired action. So it is a correction of the unwanted outcome of a command instead of providing the reward for the desired outcome (positive reinforcement). The Bully Breed Coalition uses verbal PP - I see it at the shelter, they will be teaching 'stay' or something and the dog will do it, know it, choose not to do it and they yell "HEY" to redirect and go from a sit to a stand to make the dog go back to the stay position. I think thats all it is, correction until desired action is achieved.
I think Romi's first behaviorist was doing a lot of P+ with throwing chains towards the dog, etc = adding to the correction.
I think I'm oversimplifying it a bit, I know in my own training efforts, I really push the positive reinforcement (R+), but sometimes use a slight verbal P+ to regain the attention.
Jen look on Karens site clickertraining.com there is a blog about positive punishment vs. NRM (No reward markers). I think it will fill in some of the gaps. I will not copy here since it is copyrighted.
Also here is a general tidbit from a dog trainer from Karen Pryor’s site in regard to the topic of force:
http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1977
“The crux of this short talk …..the importance of empathy, and of bonding with the animals we choose to bring into our lives. Perhaps I'd talk about how difficult it had been to bond with Finn, and how I was unwilling to risk that bond by "forcing" him to perform. I might have discussed the occasional frustration we all have while training dogs, and how to handle training sessions that don't seem to be going well. Finn's refusal would have made a perfect starting point for a discussion about why punishment is never an appropriate option.”
Lots of good stuff on this site for all types of behavior issues etc. Getting the clicker basics is most important though!
Snf