Random Acts of Puking

edited December 2008 in General
So Kristen called me this morning and apparently Remy has puked again, this time it happened around 9am. This is the third time this has happened in the last week and a half. Same scenario every time:
- Happens after he's been lying around snoozing for an hour or 2
- Never right after a walk, eating something, playing
- Always on an empty stomach...he's had two poops since he ate last and just bile, etc. that comes up)
- Doesn't look like he's got into anything out of the ordinary
- Haven't had any change in diet, excercise, daily routine, energy level, etc.
- Happens every couple of days
- Only when Kristen is at home and I'm not (though I think this is just a coincidence, but who knows)
- ALWAYS ON THE CARPET...we have only 1 area rug in our entire apartment, everything else is vinyl tile and hardwood. Of course we wonders across the ENTIRE apt and pukes on the carpet!!! (This part is just plain annoying)

It doesnt seem too serious as it's only every couple of days so I've just been keeping an eye on him so far. Anyone have any thoughts??? I'm all ears

Comments

  • edited November -1
    Have you given him any medicine (topical) or flea treatments recently. Or bathed him in funny soap? He might be licking that and it's making his tummy upset? Just a thought.
  • edited November -1
    Good point and I hadn't thought of that. But nope, he hasn't got a bath with soap yet, just rinsing to clean off his paws/legs after a muddy walk
  • edited November -1
    has he chewed carpet or anything else been destroyed (rope chew toy?)?

    Jesse
  • edited November -1
    Not to my knowledge. He does have a rope tug and some plushies (that he is starting to destroy) and I know he has been tearing off little pieces of the rope, but nothing has shown up in his 'little gifts' he's left us.
  • edited December 2008
    You may want to look into the food situation and what you are feeding or using as treats. We have had rescues that can not tolerate certain brands of foods resulting in puking at odd times which appeared to have no rhyme or reason. Once the food changes were made the throwing up stopped.


    The problematic foods had lamb in them ....least problematic was chicken or fish and potato. Previously Canidae worked for transitioning after their formula change we moved off that product line and now we use Verus chicken. However, I think Verus is only locally distributed in our region. Look up the ingredients in your current dog food and see what's in it.

    You can feed cooked rice and chicken for a week or two as a s test see if that eases the situation and then move to a brand of food kibble that is similar.

    Snf
  • edited November -1
    SnF, he is on Nutro Natural Lamd & Rice, which is what he was on while he was in foster. He was on this (from what I'm aware) for a little over a month with no issues. Treats (though very rare) consist of a kong with peanut butter, kibble and some bits of cheese, some new organic peanut butter cookies (he just got those on sunday, but the puking started before these) and that's pretty much it. He works pretty hard for kibble in training so I've really just been sticking with that. That's really about it.

    Wouldn't reactions to food happen closer to meals as opposed to the next day? He's only puked on an empty stomach
  • edited December 2008
    Not necessarily. From what we experienced the dog could be on the kibble for some time before exhibiting the symptoms. Also some of the manufacturers monkey with the formulas and you as the consumer are not aware of it and it can cause problems for the dogs.

    You can always try feeding the dog more often to see if that eases acid build up due to hunger. It could be the dog can not go for long periods of time without eating. However, m y opinion on that is it might again be the food causing acid or digestion issues. Specifically we had problems with Nutro - the exact same food you have been using!!!

    Snf
  • edited November -1
    Very interesting, thanks for the info. I guess first I'll try feeding him more often and see if that helps. If not, I'll try him on something different and see how that goes. I've also emailed his foster to see if she had any similar issues. Cheers and thanks again!!
  • edited November -1
    How much does Remi weigh? You could try giving him 1/2 a human pepto tablet to settle his stomach too. In my experience, the bile type pukes are usually caused by acid build up on an empty stomach. Was he free fed before you got him? How often do you feed him?

    Also, I second what Snf said about formulas changing. In the US, manufacturers are legally allowed to change ANYTHING in the formula for 6 months before being required to note the change on the packaging. For dogs with food intolerances or allergies this can be a disaster.

    Also, Joey doesn't do well on Lamb either. I know some people (LJ in particular I think) feed lamb with good success, but for some reason its an instant problem for Joey.
  • edited November -1
    Dave, Remy weighs just under 22 lbs. He's being fed once a day as that is what he was used to and I wanted to keep things consistent while he adjusted to his new home. I don't know what his routine was in his original home, but he was on the same food with 1/day feedings with his foster. Now that he's settled, I'm going to take SnF's advice and start on twice a day feedings and see how that goes for a few days.

    Thanks for the advice on the pepto tablet, I'll keep that in mind.
  • edited November -1
    Hmm, the only thing I would suggest is to change the food. Back when they had the Food Recall scare a few years ago, Nutro was one of them. I don't really trust the food much anymore. I'm sure the food is decent, but (most) Shibas excell best at foods with Fish in them, since most of them have sensitive tummies/digestive tracts.
  • edited November -1
    I would DEFINITELY feed him more often. If Bella goes somewhere new, she forgets to eat, and that causes her to vomit stomach acid. It sounds like Remy would benefit from twice or even three times daily feedings.

    I would start slow, but I am not sure the correct transition for changing feeding from once to twice daily. (I free feed my gals.) Maybe Jen might have some insight as she has had several fosters.
  • edited November -1
    Dave, you're right - Lamb is in one of our food rotations & Jazz does fine with it. To be honest, I haven't found any food that she doesn't do well with, tho. We just try to make sure everything is grain-free.
  • edited November -1
    Steph, I didnt realize Nutro was one of the recalls...I didn't have a dog back then so I never really paid to much attention. Hmmm, I don't know how comfortable I am with this food anymore. I think a change may be in order, regardless if its the culprit or not.

    Casey, I think you just confirmed it for me...I suspect it's the stomach acid thing. I don't think I'll transition, just start on twice a day from here out. Three times in not feasible as Kristen and I are both at work during the day.
  • edited November -1
    Ok, so Remy's foster got back to me. She said she doubts its the food as he's been on it for some time, but who knows. I still think I'm gonna switch it up. Anyway, she did say this:

    "I have noticed with Remy that he has a hard time drinking because he has a huge tongue. I know, a bit of a funny issue to discuss, but one that i noticed. He tends to get a lot of water spilt when he drinks. I would limit the amount of time he spends drinking, so its smaller times of drinking and less of "big long drinks". He could be swallowing a lot of air when he drinks and then he gets a gastro build up of air which later gets expelled as a vomit. If i had to mention one thing that I think it could be, this would be the one i would do first. After six or seven slurps, tell him to leave it. Then 5 mintues later, let him drink again. Try this method for a few days and see if it helps"

    Any thoughts? He is the SPILLIEST DRINKER EVER!!!! I swear more water ends up on the floor than in his mouth.
  • edited November -1
    I know if Miso gets excited over food he GULPS it so fast then he ends up puking because of how fast he ate (not his usual food, but if there is something special cooked for them that night). I usually have to hand feed him slowly so this doesn't happen. Could be an air intake thing...who knows. couldn't hurt to give it a shot!
  • edited November -1
    LOL. Mike, Nola has the same problem with spilling more than she drinks. But that is just because she is dense and plants her whole face in the bowl and then gets surprised that she can not breath.

    However, unless he drinks the water FAST, I doubt that would have anything to do with it, especially if he is vomiting in the morning before he has a lot of water.
  • edited November -1
    If you are not going to change the food, just start feeding him twice a day. His being fed once a day would definitely cause the acid build up mid digestion.

    Nutro isn't a drastically horrible food, especially if Remy tolerates it. It is mostly grain and filler though. You can easily tell on a creamie if they tolerate it or not, with bright red ears and redness in their joints under the fur, eye boogs, etc. If you are interested in switching his kibble, check out dogfoodproject.com or dogfoodanalysis.com to choose an appropriate food for him.
  • edited November -1
    To be honest, I'm sure if he's been drinking before he pukes. This morning it was after his walk, so he could have guzzled a bunch while I was in the shower. I will keep a closer eye on his drinking for sure though.

    Casey, lmao!!! I can just picture Nola when she realizes she cant breathe under water!!! Anyway, Remy doesnt like getting his snout wet (unless its plunged under some snow, then he loves it) so he licks the water up the side of the bowl.
  • edited November -1
    Mike, I would recomend the Dogit water fountain again too. It has been a god send since Sake likes to put her paws in the water bowl and see how wet she can make herself, the floor, the food, etc... Plus she drinks off the side of the fountain so it is IMPOSSIBLE to gulp, just a few nice licks of water each time.
  • edited November -1
    Well, there are a lot of plausible theories and remedies, but I'm almost convinced its the feeding once a day thing. Before you go changing 37 things about his feeding pattern and diet, I would start feeding him twice a day (approximately 12 hours apart) for a week or so to see if that helps. I'd be willing to bet that will solve his problem. If it does, then you can think about changing his diet.

    As an extra data point or two....When Lucy is having an IBD flareup and skips meals, she frequently vomits bile. Also, my friend's JRT (who we'll be watching this weekend) is extremely sensitive to feeding times. He usually eats at 5:30am and 5:30pm which doesn't fit with our schedule at all. So his first day here when he has to wait until 9:00 or 9:30 to eat a meal on our schedule he almost always vomits bile. Sometimes I'll give him a treat or two to hold him over so he doesn't vomit and that usually does the trick.
  • edited November -1
    Kristin, we've been thinking about getting one of those to solve the wet floor/running out of water issue. Maybe it'll go on my bday wish list!
  • edited November -1
    It is SO worth the money to have the fountain. In more ways than I could think. At first I was like "Holy crap am I really spending 50 bucks on a water fountain for my dogs?!?!?! WTF?" but now I realize it was better for them, for my floor and the household. Plus the cat really likes it too :)
  • edited November -1
    Dave, I totally agree. No sense changing anything more than one thing at a time, otherwise there are too many variables and no way to identify the culprit (kinda like science experiment...I know, I'm a nerd!). I'll start with the feeding times and go from there. Good advice!
  • edited November -1
    I know Beebe is starting to develop IBD from her immune issues, but she will puke bile/grass in the morning and evening on an empty tummy if her meals are late. I think she gets nauseated from not eating (maybe like hunger pains). The incidences decreased if I increased her rations. This almost always happens when she is doing nothing, just sleeping, and she suddenly starts the urkka-gurkkas. Anyways, happy troubleshooting.
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