Fighting the good fight?

edited December 2008 in General
I go on craigslist today to look for a couch and find this in the pet section:

http://scranton.craigslist.org/pet/959948756.html
"Nothing says Merry Christmas like a new puppy! Shiba Inu are in the Akita family. In Japan, Shiba Inu means "small dog." The breed grows to about 20 pounds or maybe a male 25lbs average. They will be ready the week of Christmas. They come with puppy shots and papers. They are all brown and I do have photos. I have 3 males and 1 female. Please reply to if you are interested for more details!"

blood. boiling. stomach. cramping. eyes. bloodshot. face. twitching.

So, I flagged her and responded:
http://scranton.craigslist.org/pet/960006867.html
"Shiba Inus are NOT great gifts, no puppies are! Donating to rescue and shelters say Merry Christmas much better than selling puppies.
p.s. I will be flagging you for selling dogs on Craigslist as well.

Shiba Inu means "little brushwood dog" and are an ancient and difficult breed of dog with Japanese origins. They are NOT for everyone, neither are Akitas. They require a LOT of training, socialization, grooming and patience to become happy healthy dogs. Please research the breed and find a reputable breeder to get the best start with this breed of dog: www.shibas.org, www.bravewolf.ca, www.nycshibarescue.org

Please email me and I'll connect you to amazing rescues and breeders for this breed. Do not use backyard breeders like the original poster, it only perpetuates the problem of pet overpopulation and the ruin of this amazing breed. This poster doesn't know much about her own dogs, they do not come in brown - its called RED in a shiba inu!

Happy Holidays - be responsible! "

teehee. merry christmas idiot.

Comments

  • edited December 2008
    I should mention that I know this woman is a backyard breeder. She had an ad in the paper earlier this year for puppies and I called thinking oh cool a shiba person only to find out that she has two STORE bought shibas with CKC papers and she is breeding a cream. ugh to the max.

    I don't know when it started to happen but when i see complete ignorance ESPECIALLY with the shiba is involved, I don't even think, I just jump in!
  • edited November -1
    Ugh to the max is right. That sucks. Bah Humbug.
  • edited November -1
    Brown Shibas huh? It's really too bad that breeding is so easy (for dogs and people).
  • edited November -1
    I think someone should be buying their pets spay and neuters for christmas this year. 8) How awful. I can't believe that people would breed their animals from a pet store. At the pet store I worked at, we called it adoption, and we had spay/neuter contracts and if you did not get your pet fixed, then the state will come after you ( cause they have for some people who got pets from the store I worked at ). 8) Since for adoptions, it is required by law in PA, I believe. I kinda wish all pet stores operated like that ( or just not sell animals at all ), but it is a TON of paperwork, and they don't just sell pets to the first people who wave money in their faces.
  • edited November -1
    Thank you for flagging this idiot Jen. Did she respond back to you at all?
  • edited November -1
    What an artard. That makes me mad. Well, I guess I'm not the only person that has the incurable habit of flagging Craigslist adds about pets and breeding. I get some of the best response e-mails that way that are so heart warming;) I'm sorta figuring out that when idiots want to breed whatever it is they feel like, regardless of all reason, they will do it anyways and sometimes just for spite.

    I got a phone call at work last Saturday from a real winner asking if we could take payments for a cesearian on her pitbull. I remember this lady being advised not to breed and to spay her dog for all of the following reasons: The pups were stuck and the dog had been laboring for more than a day, only one pup born so far. She said she had been calling E-clinics since the PREVIOUS night but they were too expensive and wouldn't do payments ($600 for the sx). So more than 24 hours later she thinks to call us, probably all the pups are dead and the dam is beyond help and our clinic is closing and the Doc has gone home already. What is wrong with people? I was so fed up I told her to go to another clinic (I really wanted to rub it in though but I think she was a little touched so it would have been pointless).

    Anyways, back to the origonal post. I still think it's worth intervening for piece of mind anyways. You gave some good info and hopefully some people get smart and pay attention.
  • edited November -1
    Well done! For us here that "know", at least.

    It saddens me that a hefty portion of people might think that you were being a know it all and offended the "poor breeder" for her "ignorance". Ignorance has always been a good excuse to get away with stuff.

    But you did what (I think) all of us would have.
  • edited November -1
    "It's really too bad that breeding is so easy (for dogs and people)." - Agreed Brandon
    And in that line of thought...
    Ignorance breeds ignorance - so hopefully you kept it from spreading!
  • edited November -1
    Ignorance is not an excuse.

    And I think what you did was great, Jen. I would have done the same in your position. Because Shibas are not for everyone. And Shibas do not come in Brown. And the Family that Akita belong to (Canidae) is the Family that ALL dogs (and wolves, foxes, dingoes, etc.) belong to.

    Ugh. Stupid people make me mad.
  • edited December 2008
    Lindsay, I can't tell you how many times we have gotten that same phone call here. I just wish one day I could tell these people how I really feel, but of course, I need to to keep my job. We had a family bring a pitbull in who was only 1 YEAR OLD who had been laboring for a few days and was almost dead. 1 dead puppy was stuck in the birth canal and they had to euthanize the mom due to her state and having not a single dime on them. :,( So, for those of you who are fighting the good fight, keep up the good work.
  • edited December 2008
    Thanks Jen....they should be flagged!! I get sick of all the ignorant "fs" out adding to the overpopulation of the breed.
    I also really dislike the word "rescue" being batted about by so many and used indiscriminately in the pandering of dogs when the random "yutzes" can't sell or unload animals quickly enough and pet stores use the term as a means to garner public goodwill in purchasing.

    The churning of Shibas is at an all time high. True rescue organizations are currently overwhelmed with the amount of Shibas being discarded.
    Right now there are 375 Shibas listed on petfinder and those are dogs that have an advocate trying to help. There are many more that don't make it on to that list and many more animals that will not see it through the new year.

    What a reality my friends, most of those pups sold by these "IFs" like Jen mentions will end up on the discard pile within the next yr.

    Again thanks Jen for speaking up....it is a combination of small steps such as this by many that hopefully will lead to changes. Hopefully folks on this list can consider adoption too and spread the word about quality options.

    Snf
  • edited November -1
    Why do dogs seem to attract as many idiotic asshats as they do responsible owners? I know that isn't the case in reality, but it sure looks that way sometimes.

    I am entering the fight in my own way. My 9 year-old cousin wants a dog. Her dad has been standing firm on his "not until you're older" opinion, but what does age have to do with it? Answer: Not much. So, if Tosca can tolerate the child, my cousin will be getting a little insight into dog ownership - scheduled walks, picking up poo, out at night and in the cold for our nightly walk, a trip to the pet supply shop to see me go through a substancial sum of money to be sure my baby get good food, treats, and toys, ect... Let's see how attractive the idea of doing this for years is. The good thing is that, if she still wants a dog, she'll be more informed and prepared when the day comes for her to take her dog home.
  • edited December 2008
    I got flagged.
    So I posted this:



    Please think twice, three times if you have to, about adopting/purchasing an animal (puppy, kitten, etc) as a Christmas gift.

    The economy is really bad right now, and while some might be looking to profit from production of animals for sale, the real sufferer will be you and the animal.
    Think about the expenses: the vet, the shots, the wormings, the flea guard, the bed, the toys, the food, the treats, the leash, the crate, the carrier, etc...

    Think about the responsibility: they are like babies, you have to make sure they are always fed, watered and walked. You have to be home with them, play with them, and commit to them. That is a 12-16 year commitment for a dog or a cat.

    Ask any shelter volunteer how many surrenders they get after Christmas. It is a sad reality.
    So do yourself a favor, think twice, even if you've got a crying child - teach your children responsibility and values. An animal is a responsibility, not a gift.

    Be responsible - and Happy Holidays!

    http://www.petrescue.com/library/no-pups.htm
    http://www.slate.com/id/2132035/
  • edited November -1
    Curious - never been on craigslist - they were able to flag you back for your post?? And exactly how does that work/ what are the repercussions??
  • edited November -1
    Nan - I believe age has A LOT to do with it. Speaking from experience, a 9 year old cannot take care of an animal themselves, no matter how dedicated they think they can be. Sure, they may keep up with walks and feeding and all those regular things for a little while, maybe a few months, but eventually it becomes a chore to them. The dog will suffer unless another family member steps in to take care of it. This family member will become upset with the child for not taking care of their duties. What happens when the kid wants to go have a sleepover at their friend's house, or wants to go to summer camp? Don't even get me started on money, because kids nowadays do not understand the value of a dollar. Taking her to show you how much you spend on Tosca will not have any impact on her other than possibly, "Wow, Nan sure does spoil her dog!" A 9 year old has no way of earning money, save maybe an allowance, and that is not enough to take care of an animal on.

    A family should not ever buy a dog unless the adults in the family want a dog, because that is whom the responsibilities fall upon. Parents should never give in to children begging for the dog, because the parents will be the ones taking care of it, and if it is not something they wanted, the dog will be resented and likely not get the treatment it deserves.

    Jen, I applaud you for calling out this BYB and bringing light and reasoning to that listing. if you prevent even ONE person from purchasing a dog as a Christmas present, it is a huge victory in my eyes.
  • edited November -1
    Jen, I like your post and that you called attention to the shelter situation. Here's what someone from my meetup wrote:

    "Hi
    I own 2 Shibamos, both purchased from pet stores. Both of them are lovely dogs. In fact the nicest pets I've ever owned. Maybe they own me. Shiba Inus are cool and Eskimos are cool. These are not show dogs, people, please quit with the elitist baloney. These are pets. We feed them nice food, make them nice beds, love them and take them to vet. They love us back. I never see these dogs in shelters. I have looked. In fact I check everyday. People don't give them up and if they do they have some place to go pretty darn quick. Thanks for listening, not meaning to offend anyone." http://www.meetup.com/www-seattleshibainu-com/messages/boards/thread/3630221

    Given that this is the general opinion for the uneducated, I feel free to flag people on Craigslist. 2 of our clinic staff are taking turns fostering a pair of shibas right now that there aren't homes for. Most people don't want dogs unless they are puppies and these shibas are middle aged with severe health issues (that's why the vet techs are taking turns at Shiba Watch-for the last year) so thinking they will "go pretty darn quick" is total bulls***t. So far, I have never had anything other than an extremely irate email. People can flag anything you post. I suppose the administrators will ban you (that particular email you post with anyway)from posting after you abuse/misuse the posting system.
  • edited November -1
    I remember a long time ago seeing a craigslist ad of someone selling pups of what they claim to be the "newest craze in designer dogs" They called the pups Cockershibas, a mix between the american cocker spaniel and, you guessed it, the shiba inu. Two of the people who bought these pups had posted a week later wanted to gt rid of them due to financial issues.

    I really hate the idea of "designer dogs." To me, it looks like just a lot of marketing BS so that someone can sell a mutt for show dog prices. Plus the fact that the majority of designer dog breeders that I have seen act pretty much like backyard breeders, over breeding the parents and not performing health checks the is common for reputable breeders. Then you have the people who were to lazy to get their dogs fixed and wind up with mixed pups that they want to sell for way more than they paid for the parents.

    Then there are people who automatically assume that the dog their looking at is a designer breed. When I first was going to the dog park with Tetsu, many people kept asking me if he was a Pomamoe (pomeranian/american eskimo). And another lady argues with the companion of a tan standard poodle, saying that her poodle is a labradoodle cause apparently poodles only come in black or white. The poodle lady was reall pissed about that.

    Don't get me wrong, I love mutts and have met a lot of wonderful "designer dogs" such as the Puggle (pug/beagle). Just the "marketing" behind it pisses me off. Plus the fact that the word "Designer" makes me think that your picking your dog out to match this weeks handbag.

    Sorry for ranting, didn't mean to be a post robber...
  • edited November -1
    no robbing! good points! hence my war with a particular breeder - you can't say designer and expect people who actually care about one of the breeds to respect you anymore. Designer + demand = profiteering.

    And there are shibamo's in shelters. A large majority listed as shibas are mixes, and most of the creamier ones look eskimo mixed.

    actually, i might get ripped for this, but the one 'designer dog' that I can stand behind is a properly bred labradoodle, or goldendoodle or whatever. They are a great match of breeds for a service dog - smart, willing to please, low aggression when socialized, low to no shed... I'm hoping that within a few years I'll be certified to train service dogs (particularly for diabetic alert or autistic companionship) and while ideally I'd like to stick with shelter dogs, I'd be very interested in working with a 'doodle' after I saw one make a presentation about diabetes alert dogs. Awesome stuff.
  • edited November -1
    Any dog can be a diabetic alert dog, it doesn't need to be a "doodle" to be able to do that. :)

    I'm not going to rip on you Jen, but I don't see the point of doodles either. There is only a very tiny chance that the offspring of a poodle/whatever will be nonshedding. The overwhelming majority of F1s are shedding... even worse, when you get continuous hair growth of the poodle AND the shedding aspect of the other parent! *shudders*

    I really don't know what everyone has against poodles that makes people want to cross them with other dogs to get a "better" breed. Most poodles are freakily intelligent and highly willing to please. The only aggressiveness I've seen in them is one that was snarky with other dogs - which comes down to socialization IMO.
  • edited November -1
    I think labradoodles and goldendoodles being used specifically towards the making of a better service animal is praise worthy. Goldens and labs are used in little breeding colonies solely for the purpose of producing even tempered working service dogs, but they still as a group tend to have certain chronic health issues that a doodle combo might be more restistant too. Transporting a large dog to the vet every other week when you are wheelchair bound and need frequent medical care yourself does not sound like a good time. Other than that, I don't see a general need for creating new breeds but I do like working breeds that can work and golden/labradoodles can so they justify their own existance in my eyes anyways (however I would not want one as a pet).
  • edited November -1
    Jen, you make such a good point, regardless of the breed, Christmas is no time for getting a puppy and money and time can be better spent by helping the local shelter or rescue organization.

    I just read over the Whole Dog Journals shelter article starting on page 18, it is pretty good.
    Volunteers make a big difference in making it a better place and in some cases in influencing direction.


    Snf
  • edited December 2008
    Ahhh, the doodle-poo debate.

    I'm really not a fan of designer dogs in general, but the one labrodoodle I've had experience with was a good boy who was purchased by a family with a highly allergic, but dog-loving, daughter and the whole family adored him. They didn't get him because he was a labrodoodle, they got him because he was his silly self. I suppose this is the exception to my usual rule.
    I did have some yappy designer lap dog thing try to rip me apart starting with my feet and ankles. As he is raining wholesale distruction down upon my sneaker and the hem of my jeans as I'm trying to walk past, his owner says, "Do you have a dog? He hates other dogs? Otherwise he's and angel." Meanwhile I am contemplating the speed with which I'd have to kick this thing to make the "little angel" fly across Grand Central. (I wouldn't actually punt someone's dog. Relax, I'm not evil, just grumpy.)

    Kyla - I think that my point is proved by the silly statements from the uninformed/disinterested owners and breeders with have been related by forum members in the posts above. An irresponsible 25 year old is just as bad for a pet as an irresponsible 9 year old. The difference is that it is usually much easier to educate a child than to re-educate an adult that a dog is a living, dependant being rather than just a handbag warmer.
  • edited November -1
    Nancy, "I would actually punt someone's dog." Freudian slip? ;-)
  • edited November -1
    Dave, thanks for catching my mistake. :D They have "spell check" and "grammer check", so why not "you obviously weren't thinking check"?
  • edited November -1
    They are working on it. They actually have a "hey moron, you forgot to attach the file to this email you're sending" check now. It supposedly works pretty well.
  • edited November -1
    LOL, I need that!
  • edited November -1
    I don't call those little ankle-biting, yapping dogs as "punteranians and/or kick terriers" for nothing :)

    Jesse
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