And here I thought you hated them!?
There is a great deal I do not know (or understand) about canine behavior, but this one is baffling me...
Hanzo strongly dislikes other dogs, especially near him or in his face. He has begun to tolerate Tsuki next to him on walks but will still snap at her if she gets excited over a leaf or something - even though I never let them actually interact like he and Hachi were briefly able to - he still tries to snap at her from 2 feet away just because she's excited about something.
We have to crate our dogs to allow Hanzo free roam of the house here and there for an hour or so. He has free reign of the entire house except inside the actual crates of Tsuki and Kitsune... and yet, he will lay near them while they are crated.
So we tried something... we had Tsuki in the crate when we noticed him laying very near to her. So the next time, we put Kitsune in there (whom he never tolerates for anything). He laid there again. Facing him. Very near to him! Doesn't snap or bark or acknowledge how close they are.
Now, one of our radiators is right there, but that one isn't turned on during the day, so there isn't any real warmth. The sun doesn't come in the front windows very well either, so he's not laying in sunlight. He has free roam of a 3 bedroom townhouse and chooses to be nearest to another dog when he wants to nap. I'm on the couch snapping photos and he chooses to be near the dogs.
What is up with that? Am I reading too much into it - or do you think he may potentially want to be near another dog?
Proof:
Any and all insight would be appreciated!
Hanzo strongly dislikes other dogs, especially near him or in his face. He has begun to tolerate Tsuki next to him on walks but will still snap at her if she gets excited over a leaf or something - even though I never let them actually interact like he and Hachi were briefly able to - he still tries to snap at her from 2 feet away just because she's excited about something.
We have to crate our dogs to allow Hanzo free roam of the house here and there for an hour or so. He has free reign of the entire house except inside the actual crates of Tsuki and Kitsune... and yet, he will lay near them while they are crated.
So we tried something... we had Tsuki in the crate when we noticed him laying very near to her. So the next time, we put Kitsune in there (whom he never tolerates for anything). He laid there again. Facing him. Very near to him! Doesn't snap or bark or acknowledge how close they are.
Now, one of our radiators is right there, but that one isn't turned on during the day, so there isn't any real warmth. The sun doesn't come in the front windows very well either, so he's not laying in sunlight. He has free roam of a 3 bedroom townhouse and chooses to be nearest to another dog when he wants to nap. I'm on the couch snapping photos and he chooses to be near the dogs.
What is up with that? Am I reading too much into it - or do you think he may potentially want to be near another dog?
Proof:
Any and all insight would be appreciated!
Comments
j/k
Jesse
I think he is asserting his dominance by laying down next to the crate, but also showing a somewhat dominant "I'm ignoring you" position by facing away. Do the others like, or dislike being in the crate?
If they don't really like being in their crate, they may be emitting "unhappy" smells and Hanzo is could be saying "I know your there, I know your not happy, and I'm not gonna do anything about it."
If they don't mind being in the crate, he could be laying there to say "Look, I'm free and your not"
Dog aggression stems from fear and insecurity. Hanzo is likely extra aggressive because being three legged makes him extra vulnerable. So when he is exposed to other dogs who are younger, healthier, and likely stronger he goes into a fear/panic response (thus his reaction to excitement). He likely craves the companionship of other dogs and is lonely. But only feels safe to be near other dogs when they can't hurt him.
The calming signals: Kitsune tolerates the crate, but doesn't like it so he'll whimper for a few minutes then settle into a sleep. Hanzo will go up, yawn then nest like you see in the pics. Kitsune will then yawn and just lay there.
Tsuki is a very good girl in the crate, goes right in, lays right down. When Hanzo comes over to nest near her, she'll lick her lips, lick her paws a little then yawn and Hanzo does the same. There really isn't any tension felt by his being so near to them.
I really do think he's lonely - that was my original theory anyway and then I thought "but I thought you hated these guys!". Like right now, the three (tsuki/kitsu/eva) are running around like nuts and really playing hard, Hanzo is up in my bedroom and barks when they go near the door then whimpers and I can hear him jumping on the bed, thrashing my pillows around... playing with himself.
I just wish there was some way to communicate to Hanzo that this is a safe space. His distrust/dislike/intolerance of the other dogs is truly his only flaw.
I think you need to stop this behavior not by continuing to keep them separated; that is just not fair to anyone.
I recently saw Victoria Stilwell (she is incredible) cope with this very problem regarding a Lab and a Jack Russell. The Jack was so terrible that these people allowed the behavior to go on for three years. Victoria stepped in and through positive reinforcement was able to have both dogs together within a short time. She also said that the Jack's response was due to his fear and insecurities. It was an amazing show. I am almost certain that it is available online to view ( I wil go look). Here is a link that has a tab that says "watch full episodes" http://animal.discovery.com/tv/its-me-or-dog/index.html
Here is a link that explains the use of "Positive Reinforcement". http://animal.discovery.com/convergence/its-me-or-the-dog/positive-training/positive-training.html
It is all up to you from this moment. You have to stop allowing this behavior to continue. Victoria could not stress enough that this behavior, being stress and insecurities, actually will reduce the life expectancy of the dog. Just like us, our bodies create diseases and problems due to exposure to stress. Consider this the perfect time to cope and overcome this once and for all.
Sending you Biggest Huggs and Positive Reinforcement to you !
Ron
I know what you are saying about wanting to be able to tell him that they are safe. I dream of the day Piglet KNOWS that I will never let another dog hurt her ever (or anything else for that matter).
Sounds like you are handling it well. Just please steer clear of any dominance theories. Especially with rescue dogs, they can cause SO MUCH DAMAGE to their emotional well being.
What I can speculate is how Jessica put it: he's got three legs, he has very little muscle mass [but building!], he's old, he has no real defenses other than his displays of fear and insecurity [as I interpret them] when he is faced with younger, active, healthy dogs. His time with Hachi was brief, they could go face to face because Hachi never made eye contact, always kept her calm and confidence [around other dogs, not people] intact and controlled their interactions herself. They still could not be unleashed in a confined space together though. I actually watched an "its me or the dog" episode recently where VS decided two of the 4 dogs living together would never be able to interact off leash [because of fighting] even though they lived together. Her reasoning was exactly what I've been seeing in Hanzo.
We can walk hanzo on a leash through the house because our 2 shibas are good at down-stays and do not pose a threat to him when they are calm and still. We use body blocks and positive reinforcement to convey to Tsuki and Kitsune that staying at a distance from Hanzo is the right thing to do. We've been able to have Hanzo (leashed) on the couch with me while the other 2 are loose but as soon as they begin to play anywhere near him he gets upset and visibly stressed. I'm trying to teach him that dogs exhibiting a calm demeanor at a safe but close distance do not always pose a threat. Other times he will be in our large (meant for a basset) crate in the same room as us so he's not in total isolation while we are home and relaxing. They always go on walks together, but either my husband or I will walk ahead or behind the rest with Hanzo.
My goal while he is here is to create a very safe space for him, so he can fully trust the human hand again [he flinches a great deal when hands are raised like he was hit before] and find life enjoyable indoors and out of his concrete humane society cell. It is also my goal to eliminate any and all possibilities for confrontation between dogs and subsequently injuries caused by confrontations. Hanzo does NOT inhibit his bite when confronted by a dog [whether calmly or rambunctiously] and this paired with his unknown past and insecurities makes his immediate separation from my dogs acceptable. It is beyond my training capacity to try to mold him otherwise, but I would be delighted for his sake if he could interact with them. So for now, when he's laying near their occupied crates, I'm delighted that he is getting the social experience he wants safely.
My ultimate goal is to rehome him to a home that understands his incapacity at this time in his life to safely accept the presence of other dogs. While ideally since he is a dog and therefore a social creature, interactions with other dogs would be thrilling - for me - but not for him. He's been through so much and I think he'd be equally satisfied with his own people for all interactions. If he were somewhere that didn't require him to be in isolation for hours at a time while not requiring him to be around other dogs, I would be more than happy for him.
Victoria Stillwell is great. However, each situation is different and you must weigh what works for Hanzo and the safety of your own dogs etc etc. It's a complicated process re-acclimating dogs that have socialization issues with other animals. What Hanzo needs are sessions with an experienced trainer that has a safe dog (calm well socialized animal) & neutral zone (away from yours/Hanzo's current living environment). Sessions should start on leash while you work Hanzo with focus exercises around the calm dog and the sessions should last only about 15 minutes at a time at most. You work with one safe calm dog and when that is going well you move to introductions with new calm dog around and rotate with the dog he is previously comfortable with seeing, all on leash or leash dragging(if that is possible). Most cases there will be not direct contact with the other dog. Off leash will only be started when there are signals the on leash activities are going as planned with your focus work and his comfort level. This is the tricky part and where an experienced person familiar with low threshold dogs is needed. The fact is there may be only one or two dogs that Hanzo may trust and the rest may be "iffy" or will not work at all. He may be best with another breed of dog, but you won't know that until more work is done with a trainer.
Avoid dominance theories, it leaves too much room for errors and mistakes that can be devastating to the rehabilitation process.
Snf
I am going to have to disagree with you, this is a very safe way to get the dogs accustomed to each others presence. None of the dogs are being punished, nor are any showing any signs of anxiety while in crate. In fact they are showing signs of trying to make Hanzo MORE comfortable.
Jesse
Ron
Patrice, I think that is WONDERFUL advice. I am still trying to find a trainer with a safe dog to work with my Piglet and her social issues.
Training dogs with socialization issues is so fragile, frustrating, and time consuming. Jen, I hope that you get the joy of seeing your hard work pay off. Selfishly I hope I get the same satisfaction one day too.
Jen, have you tried an x-pen? Like putting Hanzo in a x-pen when you are with the rest of the pack. That will allow him some more interaction because he can move around a bit but still be in his safe place. I think Romi's Ninja was put in a x-pen when he was introduced to dogs at daycare and the proof is in the puddin. :-)
We have not tried the xpen yet because we have to fix the flooring on the one we made, but ideally that would be another great way to let them safely be near one another.
Snf