this may be a dumb question

edited January 2009 in General
but why do shibas vary in size so greatly? I see really small shibas and then shibas like mine that are a bit taller. Does it have to do with their bloodline? Is one more acceptable than the other?

Comments

  • edited November -1
    Official standards on breed size are set by the AKC (in the USA anyhow). There is variation in size because breeding is not an exact science and not everyone who breeds is breeding for correct standard (unfortunately).
  • edited November -1
    Brandon said what I would say, because of poor breeding choices, there is a lot of variation from the standard - from everything in size, color, ear placement, snout length and curve, temperament and of course health issues.

    Beyond that, I think Lindsay knows more about their ancient bloodlines, but there are a few different kind of shibas that are decedent from Japan, and revived after WWII, so all shibas in the US come from one or more of the original bloodlines.
    More info here: http://www.shibainucanada.com/articles/history.htm
  • edited November -1
    Agreed with Brandon. Bella is large. She is 24 lbs and almost 18 inches at the withers and is 3 years old. Both parents were within the standard size limits.

    Nola (the last time we weighed/measured her) is just under 16 lbs and 13.5 inches at the withers and is 7 1/2 months old. Both parents were also within the standard size limits. I think she may have grown a bit taller in the past month, so I will try and re-measure her tonight.
  • edited November -1
    Another part of this is outside of genetics and that is hormones. The amount of hormones going into food sources (such as chicken, beef, lamb, and pork) has an effect on our animals just like it affects the human race.
  • edited November -1
    Standards that breeders *should* adhere to:
    AKC http://www.akc.org/breeds/shiba_inu/index.cfm
    Males 14½ inches to 16½ inches at withers. Females 13½ inches to 15½ inches. The preferred size is the middle of the range for each sex. Average weight at preferred size is approximately 23 pounds for males, 17 pounds for females. Males have a height to length ration of 10 to 11, females slightly longer. Bone is moderate. Disqualification--Males over 16½ inches in dogs and under 14½ inches. Females over 15½ inches and under 13½ inches.

    Nippo http://www.shibainucanada.com/articles/Nippo Standard.htm
    (Nippo considers the Nihon Ken to be one breed with several varieties. Shibas are referred to as "small sized dog")
    Males and females are obviously distinct with proportioned bodies. The frame is compact with well-developed muscles. Males have a height to length ratio of 10 to 11, females slightly longer. The height for males is 39.5 cm, for females 36.5 cm. A range of 1.5 cm taller or shorter is allowed.
  • edited November -1
    I agree that modern foods and the availabilty (not that everyone makes use of it however) of higher quality diets combined with the unavoidable effects of growth hormones in beef and chicken have probably contributed to a larger dog overall. Diet restriction and harsh environment should naturally restrict growth but we really lavish our dogs with good food and great digs.

    There were 3 lines of shiba remaining following WWII that I am aware of (San'in, Mino and Shinshu), and an actual breeder or history text book would be a way better source of info. Each line carried it's own specific qualities (colour, temperment, size, stop, eyes, tails, etc) that were selected for and result in the modern shiba, the San'in being the largest and Shinshu, the most popular, contributing the smallest stature to todays shiba genepool.

    In conformation, moderation is selected for and the average of the height range is what is desired for in breeding stock. If you are not breeding, don't worry about it. Breeders should be selectively breeding for moderation and for the average, NOT for excessive height or "Mame" size.
  • edited November -1
    Grrr. "MAME." ~
  • edited November -1
    Yes, Grrrr.
  • edited November -1
    Interesting contrasts out there... In the off-leash dog park yesterday we saw a beautiful male red sesame Shiba, 2 years old, who weighed about 32 lb. and was just a bit smaller than Josephine in overall size. By the the way, they loved each other and had a blast chasing and rumbling with one another. Today we saw a female, appeared to be a "dark cream" or very light "sesame". She was small, about 15 lb. and also 2 years old. She was just leaving as we were coming, and both she and Josephine were extremely disappointed they could not play together!
  • edited November -1
    How come everyone has all these nihon ken around them, & I have nothing??

    No Shikoku, No Kai, No JA, No Shiba. :p



    I'm ENVIOUS!!! I feel deprived! lol ~
  • edited November -1
    Osy,
    I looked on meetup.com for a shiba group - there are a ton of people waiting to start one up in Orlando...maybe you should look into this...also there is an akita group in Winter Garden.
  • edited November -1
    uhhh... If you let me stay at your place, I can bring my AJ and Shiba.... then we can go to Disney World lol. I was actually in Orlando this weekend because I got free stay to a Hilton Hotel there... It was cool because it had an indoor lazy river.

    The next time I will be in Orlando will probably be at the end of the month. Do you go to UCF? My friends and I are going there for a parkour meeting.
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