Lily hates any collar of any kind so no on them. I am still out on clicker training with the shibas, they seem disinterested or at lest mine is.
I am a HUGE fan of the crate. I think pups should be crate trained right from the breeders so the transition to his/her new home is a lot less of a stressful situation for both the pup and the owners. Kenya is better for it and so is her waste line cause she is a theiving hound and a sucker for any breads or pasta on the counters when no one is looking. I am glad you discovered the great things it can do for you and your pup.
That's pretty shocking about "hanging" the dogs. I guess in extreme cases it may be necessary but I can't believe that's considered a training method. I would certainly never let anyone do it to my dogs.
I use a check chain collar on Jiro, but it's very loose, so when I walk him it tightens up just enough to keep it on (no tighter than a normal collar), but when he's around the house it's very loose so he doesn't get marks in his coat from it pressing. Jiro is good on the lead so I don't use it for any reason other than that, it just stops him getting marks in his coat!
I have always used a chain choke collar on my dogs over the years with great success.Evelyn Woodhouse author of "No Bad Dogs" recommends one that has links about the size of your thumb nail and sized correctly. There is also a correct way to put the collar on. But I must add that the dog must be trained to heel and not straining on the collar constantly. After reading that shibas were known to slip their collars I knew I would use one on Pebbles so as not to risk her getting away from me. True to some of what I've read about shibas, as a pup she was hesitant to walk at all on the leash but came around quickly with a little patience. Also true to form she is not a reliable recall so she is never off leash. To give her some freedom I use a long (25') flex leash.
As with anything, no one method is the perfect way. What works for me may not work for others and vice versa.I would never use a prong choke collar on a dog, I think they serve no real purpose except to make your dog look tough. Any conflicting opinions on prong collars?
Emily Woodhouse is now considered old school, not that she isn't knowledgeable or has some decent tips. However things have changed a lot in the training world. Much training even with obedience and agility no longer involve choke collars at all. In most cases they are not needed if you develop the right skill set with the right instructor early on with your dog.
Personally I would not use a flexi leash with choke collar at all. Here's why, looking at leverage and motion, the greater the distance the more force and energy behind the dog. If things come to the end of the lead suddenly or if the flexi is locked by accident or comes to the end abruptly it can be harmful. With flexi you also have less leverage in terms of control using your wrist, arm, or elbow and the dog gains the mechanical advantage as distance is increased with the weight of dog on the end. Also given the choke collar is a thin metal band the damage is greater with the force behind it as energy is expended down the leash or up to your arm. As Crystal mentions most don't know how to use the choke collar correctly. Many "pullers" have become so used to the tightening around their throats the choke correction and response is not effective anyway.
The bungee leash I have found is pretty good to take off energy tension that occurs from lead length and pulling (dynamics of leverage). I use the bungee leash combined with a wide band martingale collar or soft harness for walking the Shibas. The bungee leash can also be tied around your waist if you you exercise or need hands free.
The martingale collar with chain release is similar a choke but the width of it reduces trauma or trachea damage if by off chance something went awry in our daily walk causing pull back on the dogs neck. Really it isn't meant for correction but safety from escape, so if the collar is sized and adjusted correctly there is no backing out worries. With the choke collar there is a high potential of back outs even if looped correctly in a "p".
If one must use a metal choke at all it should only be from a short distance, 4 ft distance at most, and for training or showing only.
PS: As mentioned below the "p" on the choke is meant to be in that position for dog walking completely on left side of owner or during obedience trial training or other performance event training in short durations. It is unrealistic to think that obedience style leading is practical or easily maintained on regular walk for potty breaks and general outings. Like with kids one can only keep the dogs in a line up so long in the everyday environment. Safety and health are paramount for both the dog and handler. Use of a choke in the wrong situation can compromise that.
I use the prong collar with Sage lately for certain specific situations. He vastly prefers it to the head halters. At home he wears no collar, on casual walks in the world he wears his flat martingale, and the prong for Working Walks. Our leash is a short (around 4 or 5 feet) leather one that I love.. I would not stand up and tell anyone the prong is the greatest thing since the frozen stuffed kong, (well, its older than the kong for one thing...), nor would I feel qualified to tell anyone else to use it as the potential for abuse or mishandling is so high. Contrary to what I see in public, these training collars are not forever, either, they are for temporary use while learning something important, and then can be left behind. We want to strive for communication without collars at all, collars for safety only.
Sage is not afraid of putting on the prong, and I have found that in combination with already knowing loose leash walking, Auto-check in and lots of goodies for calm, attentive choices, the prong has helped increase clarity for him and reduce the severity of his reactive displays. (Oh CRAP! A STRANGE DOG!! Lookat & follow mom= yum yum and safe vs explode at the other dog= a bit less of a rush on a prong) We also avoid situations as best we can that are too difficult for him to pass calmly. I went to the prong very late in my reactivity training because I had thought the prong was horrible and cruel, and a lot of trainers will tell you to NEVER use this on a reactive dog. BUT: know your own dog, and learn everything to make the right plan to teach him what he needs to learn in a way that he can understand.
It's very easy to custom tailor prong use- it has two rings on it- one works like a martingale it slips only so far (unlike a choker which could actually choke the airway as it can constrict all the way to nothing.) and if you clasp the leash to BOTH rings, it doesn't slip at all. Almost always when we use the prong, I am clipped to both rings for no slip. Sage has a very thick furry mane and really loose skin, but he can "hear" the prong clearly. Think about brushing your hair- I have very thick hair- a spiky brush feels good and combs my hair down to the scalp with little effort. A dense bristled soft brush doesnt get deep and feels like its muffled- it sits on top and is just annoying and not terribly important to me.
The prong collar, like the choke chain, is for deliberate walking by your side- the chain part should be by your side, leash hanging loose like a J.
I dont think anyone should choose chain or prong collars casually, and I don't think most ordinary dog owners put nearly enough thought or effort into training in the first place. I bet very few people that I know, know about "P is for Perfect and Q is for questionable" nor that a dog needs to heel on your left side for the P to release properly (Q for Right side dogs). Generally I see people using chokes with the dog out in front of them and the collar is not releasing consistently, nor is it communicating anything. Also, nothing pisses me off more (hmm, I wonder?) than dogs playing off leash with choke chains and prongs on. These collars themselves are not as inherently horrible as much as the fact that almost NOBODY can be trusted to use them fairly and safely.
Case in Point: My sister was friends with a woman in her old town who had 2 dogs, sisters she had rescued as pups: She came home one day to find the two became tangled in collars while playing- one dog's tooth had caught in the other dog's choke chain ring and strangled her and she waited like that tangled tightly to her dead sister till the woman came home and had to free her remaining dog. STUPID! horrifying. sad.
These collars are for dedicated training time only, by informed, trainer-guided people with stable tempers, on a temporary basis if they are to be used at all, I feel.
I voted no. but… honestly, until today (which is over 11 years now) Reno, my husky, is still pulling. Always walks on the end of the leash, no matter the length of it. If I leave him walk off leash, he stays around and comes back whenever I call him. Not always though. Things have changed for the good. I can walk on the street with the dogs free, they can run away in any direction, but stay around. If I hold the collar up for them to stick their heads into it, they come and do it right away, like they are missing something if they are not on the leash. Than, one walks next to me (Rico, the other huksy) and Reno walks on the end, as far away as the leash allows him. He is a husky, designed for pulling. Obviously it has bathered me but it kept me fit as well ;-)
Don't know what strategy I will use once the Shikoku shows up to join the team. Hopefully he learns that trick a lot faster.
Comments
I am a HUGE fan of the crate. I think pups should be crate trained right from the breeders so the transition to his/her new home is a lot less of a stressful situation for both the pup and the owners. Kenya is better for it and so is her waste line cause she is a theiving hound and a sucker for any breads or pasta on the counters when no one is looking. I am glad you discovered the great things it can do for you and your pup.
I use a check chain collar on Jiro, but it's very loose, so when I walk him it tightens up just enough to keep it on (no tighter than a normal collar), but when he's around the house it's very loose so he doesn't get marks in his coat from it pressing. Jiro is good on the lead so I don't use it for any reason other than that, it just stops him getting marks in his coat!
As with anything, no one method is the perfect way. What works for me may not work for others and vice versa.I would never use a prong choke collar on a dog, I think they serve no real purpose except to make your dog look tough. Any conflicting opinions on prong collars?
Personally I would not use a flexi leash with choke collar at all. Here's why, looking at leverage and motion, the greater the distance the more force and energy behind the dog. If things come to the end of the lead suddenly or if the flexi is locked by accident or comes to the end abruptly it can be harmful. With flexi you also have less leverage in terms of control using your wrist, arm, or elbow and the dog gains the mechanical advantage as distance is increased with the weight of dog on the end. Also given the choke collar is a thin metal band the damage is greater with the force behind it as energy is expended down the leash or up to your arm. As Crystal mentions most don't know how to use the choke collar correctly. Many "pullers" have become so used to the tightening around their throats the choke correction and response is not effective anyway.
The bungee leash I have found is pretty good to take off energy tension that occurs from lead length and pulling (dynamics of leverage). I use the bungee leash combined with a wide band martingale collar or soft harness for walking the Shibas. The bungee leash can also be tied around your waist if you you exercise or need hands free.
The martingale collar with chain release is similar a choke but the width of it reduces trauma or trachea damage if by off chance something went awry in our daily walk causing pull back on the dogs neck. Really it isn't meant for correction but safety from escape, so if the collar is sized and adjusted correctly there is no backing out worries. With the choke collar there is a high potential of back outs even if looped correctly in a "p".
If one must use a metal choke at all it should only be from a short distance, 4 ft distance at most, and for training or showing only.
PS: As mentioned below the "p" on the choke is meant to be in that position for dog walking completely on left side of owner or during obedience trial training or other performance event training in short durations. It is unrealistic to think that obedience style leading is practical or easily maintained on regular walk for potty breaks and general outings. Like with kids one can only keep the dogs in a line up so long in the everyday environment. Safety and health are paramount for both the dog and handler. Use of a choke in the wrong situation can compromise that.
Snf
I use the prong collar with Sage lately for certain specific situations. He vastly prefers it to the head halters. At home he wears no collar, on casual walks in the world he wears his flat martingale, and the prong for Working Walks. Our leash is a short (around 4 or 5 feet) leather one that I love.. I would not stand up and tell anyone the prong is the greatest thing since the frozen stuffed kong, (well, its older than the kong for one thing...), nor would I feel qualified to tell anyone else to use it as the potential for abuse or mishandling is so high. Contrary to what I see in public, these training collars are not forever, either, they are for temporary use while learning something important, and then can be left behind. We want to strive for communication without collars at all, collars for safety only.
Sage is not afraid of putting on the prong, and I have found that in combination with already knowing loose leash walking, Auto-check in and lots of goodies for calm, attentive choices, the prong has helped increase clarity for him and reduce the severity of his reactive displays. (Oh CRAP! A STRANGE DOG!! Lookat & follow mom= yum yum and safe vs explode at the other dog= a bit less of a rush on a prong) We also avoid situations as best we can that are too difficult for him to pass calmly. I went to the prong very late in my reactivity training because I had thought the prong was horrible and cruel, and a lot of trainers will tell you to NEVER use this on a reactive dog. BUT: know your own dog, and learn everything to make the right plan to teach him what he needs to learn in a way that he can understand.
It's very easy to custom tailor prong use- it has two rings on it- one works like a martingale it slips only so far (unlike a choker which could actually choke the airway as it can constrict all the way to nothing.) and if you clasp the leash to BOTH rings, it doesn't slip at all. Almost always when we use the prong, I am clipped to both rings for no slip. Sage has a very thick furry mane and really loose skin, but he can "hear" the prong clearly. Think about brushing your hair- I have very thick hair- a spiky brush feels good and combs my hair down to the scalp with little effort. A dense bristled soft brush doesnt get deep and feels like its muffled- it sits on top and is just annoying and not terribly important to me.
The prong collar, like the choke chain, is for deliberate walking by your side- the chain part should be by your side, leash hanging loose like a J.
I dont think anyone should choose chain or prong collars casually, and I don't think most ordinary dog owners put nearly enough thought or effort into training in the first place. I bet very few people that I know, know about "P is for Perfect and Q is for questionable" nor that a dog needs to heel on your left side for the P to release properly (Q for Right side dogs). Generally I see people using chokes with the dog out in front of them and the collar is not releasing consistently, nor is it communicating anything. Also, nothing pisses me off more (hmm, I wonder?) than dogs playing off leash with choke chains and prongs on. These collars themselves are not as inherently horrible as much as the fact that almost NOBODY can be trusted to use them fairly and safely.
Case in Point: My sister was friends with a woman in her old town who had 2 dogs, sisters she had rescued as pups: She came home one day to find the two became tangled in collars while playing- one dog's tooth had caught in the other dog's choke chain ring and strangled her and she waited like that tangled tightly to her dead sister till the woman came home and had to free her remaining dog. STUPID! horrifying. sad.
These collars are for dedicated training time only, by informed, trainer-guided people with stable tempers, on a temporary basis if they are to be used at all, I feel.
Don't know what strategy I will use once the Shikoku shows up to join the team. Hopefully he learns that trick a lot faster.