Nihon Ken Fun fact

shishiinushishiinu
edited February 2009 in General
Here are some of the rare or extinct Japanese breeds in relation to the present breeds and some historical facts from my old nihon ken books.

Akita Ken: Originally began as a medium size dog know as Akita Matagi Ken famous for hunting bears.

Kishu Ken/Shikoku Ken: Extinct breeds derived from the Kishou and the SHikoku; Kagoshima Ken, Jukoku Ken. Only 30% of Kishus were white in color.
Shikokuken bred with Akita and Mastiffs to produce Tosa Token.

Hokkaido Ken: Originally known as Ainu Ken named after the Ainu people of northern Japan. Ainu Ken known to have originated around 1200 CE!!!
Famous Hokkaido Ken known as Nupuri (Ainu name ) was famous for its Bear hunting skills.

Kai ken: Originally from the Alps of Yamanashi known for its ability to chase down and attack bears 4 times its size. Discovered in 1929 and in 1939 the Kai Ken society began. The kai is known to be so territorial that the dog could not hunt with other dogs.

Shiba Ken: Originally was called Jomon ken which was known to have started during the Jomon period in Japan at around 14,000 B.C.!!!
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Comments

  • BradA1878BradA1878
    edited November -1
    wow - interesting facts.

    The Akita fact is interesting when you consider the differences in the AA and the JA. The JA is a much smaller dog than the AA and has a much larger prey drive.

    I didn't realize how closely related the Shikoku and the Kishu are... It's interesting considering the slightly different body shapes - the Kishu is a bit longer than the Shikoku but have a very similar head shape [imo].

    The Kai Ken fact is interesting to me, I read in a book about Nihonken that the Kai is actually the only Nihonken that is *not* predisposed to dog aggression - they worked in a pack when hunting. I know our Kai is SUPER territorial, but he is also very social with his fellow pack-mates [all 10 of them].

    This is kinda why I started this forum, there are some many facts about Nihonken that stem from old-world info that is just not published in anything attainable [unless you live in Japan and can read Japanese AND know where to look].

    Thanx for the GREAT facts!!!!!

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  • SangmortSangmort
    edited November -1
    That's interesting.


    I had heard the same thing about Kai as well Brad, that of all the nihon ken they are generally more sociable & the least dog-reactive...~
  • shishiinushishiinu
    edited November -1
    I have a friend in Japan who hunts with a Kai Ken and he had a bad runin while hunting with his friends black and tan coon hounds. The Kai turned on the hounds once they caught a Boar and almost killed one of the hounds. I have some really old japanese books and it shows all the Kai kens hunting in singles. One of the lines in the Kai Ken section said when the hunter killed the deer, the dog began to rub himself on the dead deer and showed agression towards the hunter.

    Riki has growled at me a few times but never carried out any agression. He is very territorial when he eats compared to my other dogs that can almost eat out of the same bowl.

    I really think its the primetive wolf like behavior that is still inbedded in these dogs.
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    edited November -1
    It will be interesting to get Shigeru's [TheWalrus] take on the Kai Ken thing - he lives in Japan and I think he hunts with some hunters that use Kai Ken... I wonder if they hunt in singles.

    There are some [show] videos of Kai on this forum that shows how aggressive the can be... so I am sure there are aggressive ones.

    Riki sounds a bit like our Kai and our older Shikoku, they both have [and still do] growl at us if we mess with them [pick them up, touch their feet, etc]... We don't let that stop us tho, we just keep messing with them. The trick is to not let them learn that growling works as a deterrent.

    Also, if Ahi [older Shikoku] and Kona [Kai Ken] are agitated or excited by something, they can sometimes turn on each other if they become frustrated - I have seen this... it never turns into a full-on fight, it just is a lot of sound and display. Kona will also react aggressively towards other dogs while we are hiking, but not towards his pack. I could see him being an issue if you tried to work him with a dog he didn't know - just like your book describes.

    Anyway, I think that type of reactiveness is common in high-drive dogs, and I honestly love that type of temperament [but I may be nuts - lol].

    ----

    Well, I love having a forum member that works their Nihonken - I'm glad you found us! :o)

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  • shishiinushishiinu
    edited November -1
    Thanks I'm super happy to be here. All this time I thought I was the only one that was really nuts about the Japanese breeds.

    I hope I can get to know every one here and go to the meets.

    I'm also into racing cars and I been turned off of the forum stuff but this forum is awsome.
  • SangmortSangmort
    edited November -1
    OMG Another acing fan haha Are you a subaru fan? If you are you are a Perfect fit here! lol


    Brad, you're not crazy, & if you are that makes every shika / kai lover crazy too :) ~
  • HeidiHeidi
    edited November -1
    Very fascinating stuff! I, too, am very glad you found us. I'm very interested in kishus and could see myself owning one some day, but I'm not sure how many breeds I'm allowed to be obsessed with before it's too many.
  • SangmortSangmort
    edited November -1
    Heidi...if you get obsessed with any more, you will be me ;) ~
  • shishiinushishiinu
    edited November -1
    Sanmort I am. I have a 2002 WRX with Japanese STI transplant, a 1995 RHD V5 STI RA, 1991 RX-7 turbo, 1985 AE86, and a 1994 R32 skyline GTR shell that I am building right now. My wife just got a Forester and I also have a Dodge truck for hauling my race cars.
  • shishiinushishiinu
    edited February 2009
    My RHD WRX
  • shishiinushishiinu
    edited February 2009
    My Dads 22B STI
  • shishiinushishiinu
    edited February 2009
    My 02 WRX
  • SangmortSangmort
    edited November -1
    Oh, shit!


    haha I am drooling right now :p [ especially over your Dad's STI! My fav. ] ~
  • KaddyKaddy
    edited November -1
    James is drooling over all the cars right now...

    Luckily I have him convinced that my ... I mean 'our'... next car will be a BMW Z4 :oP He's got his WRX... he should just be happy right?!
  • SangmortSangmort
    edited November -1
    lmao @ Evan! But...but...they're SUBARUS!!! ~
  • the_november_rainthe_november_rain
    edited February 2009
    Evan!!! not Z4, but M3!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol Another Nihon Ken/Subaru lover, too funny.
  • KaddyKaddy
    edited November -1
    Mmmm.... the M3 and M6 convertibles do make me drool... but ... then again, so does the SLK (just cuz it's perrty!)

    We've already talked about getting an outback just to haul the doggies and the camping stuffs... but our current 'safe' 'economical' 'blah' car can handle that imo!!!
  • LeonbergerLeonberger
    edited November -1
    Those look cool!
  • shishiinushishiinu
    edited November -1
    By the way the last pic of me and my son is in mid Janurary during a Santa Ana. It was almost 90 degrees!! Hence my snow white legs.
  • ZinjaZinja
    edited February 2009
    WHAT??!!!! "1991 RX-7 turbo, 1985 AE86, and a 1994 R32 skyline GTR" No way!!!! All your cars are Initial D heaven!!!! I absolutely love AE86's and R32's... You HAVE to post pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Let me drift with you!!!
  • shishiinushishiinu
    edited November -1
    Absolutely. I will get some pics up soon. Not too much into drifitng but I love time attack. My RX-7 was my first car I drove in highschool and used to a be a non turbo but after the first engine was destroyed I spent a entire summer working on the conversion.The AE86 used to be my brothers car but he went to college and I ended up taking it. The R32 is still in its shell form. I'm strenghthening the chassy and repainting the shell. Not much to look at.

    Not much into Initial D but it looks cool. I been trying to sell the AE86 since it just sits there, the paint started to fade so its going to maco in two weeks for fresh paint. My wife is ready to kill me with all of my expensive hobbies and my yard starting to look like a car dealership.

    Anyone want to buy a AE86 or a 340hp Nissan 240SX?
  • ZinjaZinja
    edited November -1
    Where do you live again?
  • shishiinushishiinu
    edited November -1
    San Diego
  • SangmortSangmort
    edited November -1
    Joe, unfortunately 90% of the forum members live far from us!!! ~
  • ShikokuSpiritShikokuSpirit
    edited November -1
    Hey, San Diego is only a 2 hour drive away - about 100 miles -smiles-. Of course, that's during non-traffic hours.
  • ShikokuSpiritShikokuSpirit
    edited November -1
    Yeah, I read in one of my books (Musashi) of a black Kishu, it was a pedigreed dog too. I kept pondering if it was a solid black Kishu or white with a black overlay and black around the face and legs. So, it could have been a solid black Ki. I believe black is a recessive trait anyways.
  • shishiinushishiinu
    edited November -1
    In Kishus a non white color was the dominent color until the white color was used more and more for shows. There are still a few breeders in Japan who have none white Kishus.

    Check out this site. http://www.kisyuudog.com/
  • ShikokuSpiritShikokuSpirit
    edited November -1
    I have photos of a black sesame Kishu and video of a red sesame Kishu from the 2006 Nippo Show in Nagano. Those were the only Ki's I've seen that weren't completely white.
  • SangmortSangmort
    edited November -1
    Corina, when you live in Orlando & Tampa, San Diego is a 6+ hours FLIGHT! lol :)

    Tho it'd make for an awesome road trip! ~
  • SangmortSangmort
    edited November -1
    Whoa, those Kishu are stunning!!!~

    image
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