Akita Heat vs early age spay-neuter
Ok so I was reading this article http://www.chai-online.org/en/companion/overpopulation_sn_early.htm and for the most part it made a lot of sense. Then I started reading the post by Brada1978 about Lani and how she filled out after she went into heat and started to wonder....
.....since I do not plan on breeding my akita --should I look into early spay-neuter? Would doing this prevent a similar maturing from happening?
IF this could be an issue about how long should i wait(six months or so)?
.....since I do not plan on breeding my akita --should I look into early spay-neuter? Would doing this prevent a similar maturing from happening?
IF this could be an issue about how long should i wait(six months or so)?
Comments
I am a vendor in our local Farmer's Market and people utilize the market as a place to show-off their dogs as well as for socialization. Most male dogs at the market are neutered and of those males it is not too hard to notice the ones that were neutered too young. I am not sure how to put this without sounded odd, but those males neutered too early have an underdeveloped penis. Seriously, it is like looking at a puppy with their little "button" of a penis on an adult dog. I cannot help but notice because they do not look natural. This is only an observation of mine.
I believe that I have noticed some dogs acting much younger than they should and I have thought from time to time that this is what is referred to as being locked into the "puppy mindset". It seems to me without proper hormones the mind cannot develop into the natural adult disposition. (personal opinion; so if you disagree just say what you believe rather than twisting my words ---- you know who you are)
I recently read where a male Shiba was neutered then suddenly became over-protective and barking at anything that came within their personal boundaries. If true, I would surmise this is due to the lack of "Opportunity"; meaning that a male dog is the optimal opportunist for a sexual encounter. They are at ease with those entering their spaces for any chance that there might be that "opportunity" for procreation. Once neutered, any chance for mating is gone and so why not keep everyone out and become overprotective of that environment. (again, personal observations and opinion).
As for the bitches, I have nothing to go on other than the dog I grew up with as a child. She was a GSD mix and was never spayed. She did not live a long life (13 years), but I attribute that to my parents and their "table scrap" habits. She would go into heat twice a year and was never "caught", so she never had puppies. Her first heat was a bit messy in that she was not good at keeping herself clean. After that first heat she was very good at not leaving "drippings" everywhere. She was a wonderful happy girl.
My plans for Rudi are to keep him intact. I also plan on bringing a female Shiba into our lives after a few years; I do not plan on having any puppies until after 2012. It will be a bit of a challenge during a heat but since I am not your average individual I do not see a problem, or an accident. (if anyone differs on this part...please remember my stance on opinions)
I can only imagine that in the ancient world, when young men were procured as eunuchs, there were also attributes of a physiological kind as well as psychological. Most of these attributes were possibly lesser or greater depending on the age of the castrated.
I am not opposed to neutering and spaying. I just believe that there is a significant difference if a person would just wait until the animal is physically mature. Personally I think that the practice of vasectomy should be utilized versus castration. As for bitches, I am not sure if they are just getting their "tubes tied", or if they are actually given a complete hysterectomy; as I have never looked into this surgery at all. Hormones are essential in living as we all were meant to live, so why not remove the baby-making part of the equation without removing the Nature of the Beast. I am sure some women wished their husbands would get the snip versus their own need for HRT (hormone replacement therapy) after a hysterectomy.
OK, again, these are just my opinions. Please do not put words into my post, and please just inject your own thoughts; it is only my stance which has no political or sociological impact. If you disagree... just do so in your head or tell us your own thoughts and beliefs; please do not discredit mine.
Sincerely,
Ron and Rudi (both of us have our legs crossed at this very moment) LOL
1) When you spay a female her testosterone levels will increase, so you will have less of a testosterone spike if you spay her later. Testosterone will affect growth [as Kyla pointed out] this can mean she will grow a bit faster and taller if you spay her early. Also, testosterone fuels aggression/reactiveness/drive, so if your pup shows any signs of that it may be safer to wait [this is a big deal with our CO female - not so much our Akita]. Jen and I honestly think early spay has contributed to Ahi's [Shikoku] height [she is rather tall] and her reactiveness/drive, but that is just our personal opinion.
2) New studies show that "empty" heat cycles [a heat that doesn't end in pregnancy] is very hard on a females system. So, based on that, you may want to go for it early.
You should be cognitive as to how slow Akita mature when compared to other breeds too.
If you wait to spay the risks/issues are:
1 - You have to deal with the mess [which is minimal w/ an Akita, they are very clean, but the first heat is always messier than the following].
2 - Empty heats are hard on a dog's system.
3 - When a female goes into heat they are more sensitive to fear/change.
4 - Obviously, you want to make sure they are not impregnated.
The issues with spaying early are:
1 - Faster growth, which can lead to skeletal issues and excess height [which is probably, realistically, very little].
2 - Spike in testosterone which can make it even harder to socialize a high-drive/reactive/aggressive puppy.
So, imo, it is a case-by-case thing. You should wait and see your pup's temperament and then decide. For our Akita females [the ones we want to spay] we will probably wait for the 2nd heat before we spay them.
*The very earliest I would spay an Akita is 6 months old.
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In addition to the health benefits of spaying/neutering (eliminated risk of common cancers, prostate, uterine, ovarian, and breast) in my own experience there is a significant decrease in aggression and territorial behavior, as well as no messy heat for females, and less escape freak out for males when their is a female in heat.
IMO it is the responsible thing to spay or neuter any dog that isn't being bred at 6 months.
Posting on a public forum and telling people not to respond is ridiculous. The people on these forums are a wealth of knowledge and asking them to not give input... doesn't make sense.
The only reason to become a member of an online community like this is to share ideas, and if you can't discuss your differences in opinion in a civil manner - what's the point??
Among dog fanciers there has long been, as far as I know, the idea that delaying a spay until after a first heat can be beneficial for an immature bitches mental maturity and may help with physical maturation as well. Allowing the bitch to experience one heat cycle before a spay is, as was said above, on a case by case basis. I tend to believe it was Beebe's dam's temperment that contributed to Beebe's reactiveness/aggression more than spaying her early at 5 months. I do not feel it was a lack of socialization in any way. The dam's temperment greatly influences the pups and I was not wise to that at the time.
As Brad said, the reproductive organs in bitches were meant to be used or they can and do pose a health risk. If you are not using the bitch for breeding, there is no proven benefit of keeping her intact, and there are many proven reasons favoring OVH. This is why all the organs are removed. Same goes for male dogs. Unless they are being used to breed/show/work I don't see a need to delay neutering beyond 1-2 years. Chemical castration, testicle implants, canine vasectomy: should be evaluated case by case but the main question is it for the dog's benefit or the owner's ego? The hormones are still present in vasectomy and chemical neutering so I tend to believe the owners are more reluctant than the dog is to part with the testicles. Also the dog will still want to mark and roam and is capable of tying up. As a side note, the only people who have expressed serious interest to me in these options were immature men.
I find rabbits to be horrible family members when not spayed/neutered so mine are. Bad experience with both male and female cats who weren't spayed/neutered so mine are. I haven't had a negative experience with an unfixed dog so my personal opinion slightly differs. In all circumstances I do not believe in early spaying/neutering. I do prefer to wait till they are done growing.
Just an observation, and purely anecdotal. But my experience nonetheless.
However, I think if you can commit to your animal - fully commit - and wait until maturation in growth has occurred before you spay/neuter then more power to you. We have to host low spay/neuter clinics because MOST pet owners are not responsible and are not accountable when they contribute to the epidemic.
If you choose to wait until your Akita is best suitable for her spay - be utterly responsible!!
For those who haven't speutered (or know someone who hasn't) and needs/wants to - 2/24/09 is spay day usa!
http://www.hsus.org/pets/issues_affecting_our_pets/pet_overpopulation_and_ownership_statistics/spay_day_usa/
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p.s. my experience with intact males has been very similar, Jess. Brad's observations between members of his pack is extremely interesting to me, too, for that reason.
But it is interesting Brad's comments about growing taller with testosterone (in females spayed earlier). I found that interesting because in horses, testosterone causes the grown plates to close earlier and thus the animal is shorter if neutered earlier than later. So the opposite of what Brad is saying with dogs (and the female spike in testosterone). But maybe because male/female dogs are more sexually dimorphic (ie, different heights) than some other species.
Jesse
The only reason why that should matter to someone considering spaying their female early is temperament. If the pup is from a breed that has a tendency toward dog reactiveness, aggression, or high-drive, then it may be easier to socialize a female pup w/o the added testosterone. Since that testosterone spike lasts [so I have heard] 3 months, if you spay a female at 6 months [especially an Akita] you will have that increased testosterone through some of the most important socialization periods.
Having written that, I should note that we spayed Ahi at 4 months [due to health issues] and continued socializing her. While it was not super easy to socialize Ahi [she is high-drive and very reactive], she did end up being one of the most socialized and socially balanced dogs we have.
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As for the comments about experience in the rescue system with dogs that have, or have not, been s/n...
I personally believe that all rescued dogs should be s/n. The history of those dogs are usually unknown and so fixing them can help to minimize any potential [behavioral] issues that may be fueled by keeping them intact. That obviously helps to reduce the rescue system cycle as well.
To that point tho... I think it is also important that you not draw a connection between aggression/behavioral issues found in intact RESCUE dogs vs. fixed RESCUE dogs unless you 100% know their history and background. It seems unfair [and scientifically incorrect] to make judgements on the reduction of aggression in s/n dogs when any of those aggression issues could be due to ghosts of their past and not from simply being intact.
I'm not calling anyone out or saying anyone is incorrect, and I am pretty sure someone could point me to a study that shows a reduction in behavioral issues in fixed dogs vs. intact dogs. I just find it hard to believe that 1000s of years of intact working dogs, in situations where the intact dogs had to work with other intact dogs, does [at least] partly suggest that an intact dog can coexist without any aggression/behavioral issues with other dogs and people.
Something Jen and I have noticed, that seems contradictory, is when we take one of our intact males to an area where there will be fixed males the fixed males are usually the dogs that show aggression toward our intact males.
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I think s/n(ing) ones pets is really the responsible thing for a dog owner to do. If the owners don't intend to breed and/or show their dog, there is really no reason to have them intact. It really makes life a lot easier for the pet owner to have them s/n... so that's a no brainer, imo.
Also, it should be pointed out that the questions posted in the original post was not whether or not to s/n, it was WHEN to s/n an AKITA female.
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Your observation about intact males in social situations is something I have read before. And how it was explained is being that the neutered males were impotent they were perceived as lower in the social hierarchy. I will be stating the obvious here, that there are so many contributing factors to consider in regards to the temperament of a dog and s/n is just one contributor.
I think it is safe to say we have given *Jack Burton* a lot to process here. Hope that amongst all of this, you also found some answers to what you were looking for.
my point was that a lot of info online about early spay/neuter (8wks - 6months) strives to reach pet owners before their pet even goes into heat, to prevent unwanted litters before they can even happen in most cases. Most vets will suggest spay and neuter at 6 months regardless of breed or background - I assume for the same reasons.
Taking that in stride, if you feel it is in your akita's best interest to wait until fur maturation, make sure you can control her surroundings to prevent unwanted pups!
Thank you all your replies -I found the reading to be very informative.
While I completely agree with what Brad has said about it being a case-by-case basis, I am of the opinion that if you are going to spay/neuter, it's best to do it early rather than after the first heat cycle. "Empty heats" are hard on a female, as has been pointed out. The risk of mammary cancer also increases a significant amount with each heat, and all the other benefits that you've probably read about early age (which means 8-16 weeks) spay/neuter.
If you want the full benefit of hormones, then IMO unless you wait until the animal is ~24 months old then you are not getting much out of it.
I'm pretty sure I'm the only early-age spay/neuter advocate on these boards.
http://cfhs.ca/athome/early_age_spay_neuter/
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf
Keep in mind a lot of the cited sources in the second one are from the 70s... when early-age spay/neuter was not practiced very often.
The Journal of American Veterinary Medical Association in 1997 studied 775 cats and 1213 dogs. Significant findings comparing neutering surgery on older and younger animals included:
* decreased surgical time for younger animals
* increased number of minor complications in older animals
* infectious diseases were comparable
* no difference in hypothermia (surgical time shorter for younger patients)
* after 3 years, there was an increased incidence of urinary problems in animals neutered after 24 weeks of age (note: results on this differ in other studies)
Information from various early neuter studies concluded:
* growth is not stunted by early neutering, usually the opposite is true
* urinary function was not affected; urethral pressure profiles showed no statistical difference; the diameter of the urethra in early vs. traditional sterilisations was the same.
* secondary sex characteristics were affected (infantile genitalia in males and females), but did not cause health issues.
* the immune system was not affected
For clarity, let me point out that Lani is not aggressive, 95% she does perfectly with the other dogs. She seems to have these issues in a smaller space and seems to have rather large emotional swings that cause her to act more inappropriate. So, recourse guarding [which is what she is doing here] is =taken a bit further than just a "look" and growl.
Now, I have no way to prove this, but I think this change in her is probably linked to the increase in testosterone that females experiences post spay. It should clear up in the next few months if it is related to a spike in testosterone.
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Brad-do you think that's enough of an effect to permanently alter the temperment?
Thanks for the update. She is in capable hands.
I hope she feels better quickly.
I also do not believe in the early spay. I have seen too many dogs with healthy litter mates just fall apart health and developmentaly from this.
The references cited at the end of the above article allow more in depth investigations to ease minds of those who are worried. JAMVA is another area to search to look at the topic on a more granular level and ascertain the validity of the arguments and opinions.
As this tread points out, most of human population assigns their own human deeply held beliefs in terms of rights of reproduction for their pets. Sadly that has lead to euthanasia of 2.7 million animals per year in the U.S. alone.
Refs:
http://www.americanhumane.org/about-us/newsroom/fact-sheets/animal-shelter-euthanasia.html
I would like to know when is the best time to neuter?
my male American Akita was born 4/5/13 and I am considering keeping him intact till 2 years old unless he exhibits bad behaviour.
He is 24.5 inches tall. He is 90lbs. But I have felt his "wrist" I know its not his wrist. But his first joint up from his paw, for the bump that indicates he will still get taller. Well I can't feel much of a bump.
So will a neuter help him get to 26"? Or Has he stopped growing?
Should I keep him intact till his chest widens?
My brother said Doberman forums recommended that he keeps his Doberman intact till at least two years old to help his chest widen.
I have noticed in cats being intact makes them develope bigger heads.
Will being intact effect his head?
I do know about the negative effects such as marking and aggression. So far he has no issues with aggression. He marks trees. But not furniture or people or other dogs. He has healthy play with my neutered JA. They take turns on submissive positions. So i am mainly concerned about his growth and adult maturity.