Responsibility After Death

edited February 2009 in General
I know we talked about this before on the forum but 1. I can't find the thread to save my life and 2. I'd like some input from the new members.

Well now that we have a little one, a need for a will for Errik and I is a lot more important than when it was just us. We got to figure out who we want to take Micah in case both Errik and I check out.

That brings me to a problem I had in the old thread and I have still...who will the animals go to? The only possible scenario we have is if we don't die until my little brothers are of age and living independently from their parents. I know they wouldn't hesitate if they were able to. If we die before they reach legal age or before they move out of their parents' house, the animals will have no where to go but the shelter.

Do you think it's irresponsible for us to have animals and/or add animals into the family without a backup plan? Where would your animals go if you passed away?

Comments

  • edited November -1
    Hmmmm.....I've never thought of this before. I would hope someone in my family would take Honey....but who? :s
  • edited November -1
    Wow thats deep.....never thought about that.
  • edited November -1
    Custody of Jazz is in my will - I have a sequence of 6 people. To explain why, I have to share a bit of my history...

    There is a very strong probability that I will get cancer - not only have I been tested for cancer genes (and have it) - 95% of my family since 1945 have died of cancer. Of the 5% who didn't die of cancer, only 1 (my dad) didn't have cancer when he died - a stroke got him instead. I've had a will since I was 18 and I've been told that I'm way too morbid. Nearly all of my family have planned out their memorial services because the longest anyone (with 3 exceptions - 15mos, 18mos, 24 mos) has lived after diagnosis was 6 months. My mom beat the odds the first time 1979 with metastatic breast cancer. She was diagnosed with adenocarcinoma in April 2005 and was gone at the beginning of July 2005. My family is aware of the various cancers and we get checked frequently, but a diagnosis in my family is rarely a good thing. Modern medicine hasn't figured out a way to keep us alive for very long.

    When I got Jazz, I talked with various family members about taking her on - my brothers are up first (they are also my life insurance beneficiaries, alongside a trust that has been created for the support of any dog/cat that I own at the time of my death). My lawyer (one of my oldest friends) knew I wasn't joking about the setup - he's been to too many funerals in my family already. The other three are close friends who would take care of Jazz in the manner that she has become accustomed. The contract that I signed when I adopted Jazz had to be modified because the breeder had a death clause in the contract. That's one thing that you want to check out on the contract.

    No one likes to think of these kinds of things - I am the godmother of almost all of my nieces and nephews (the exceptions are my step-nieces & nephews - they are all adults now, so that isn't that big of a deal), but I specifically asked my brothers to add a second person in their wills because of the probability of cancer. I tell people to have conversations about death, memorials, and things like this while they are healthy - it makes things a lot easier than when you are dealing with someone on their deathbed.

    Rina - it's also very important that you guys do a living will. Discuss what you want...not just with each other, but your family. I've seen families torn apart by decisions made that they didn't know about.
  • edited November -1
    Ike's breeder gets Ike, my family knows that and the breeder is the only person I will trust with him, or trust to place him in a new home.

    Beebe would end up with my mother or be humanely euthanized, she wouldn't be adoptable.
  • edited November -1
    Oh yeah LJ, thanks for reminding me we'll be sure to do that.

    21 hours and only a few responses, I guess no one really wants to think about it lol.
  • edited November -1
    Most people don't want to talk about it - that's why it can be so devasting at that time. I grew up talking about it because of the family history.
  • edited November -1
    Meh, people somehow think that if you think about it, it'll happen. I've been told that I'm asking for it because we got Micah a life insurance policy along with ourselves.
  • edited November -1
    Well, I guess knock on wood - I've been talking about it (death) for 18 years.
  • edited November -1
    never thought about this actually, but thanks for bringing it up though. gonna go get a will drawn up soon.
    nikki/sachi will go to my in-laws while koda will go to my bro-in-law.
  • edited November -1
    I have a question, and maybe I'm in the minority here, and this is not an attack on anyone (because I know how deep this topic is) - this is just an inquiry, but how can humane euthanizing your dog just because you died the optimal solution? There was a breeder posting on here not long ago that said she'd rather euth than see her dogs bred for profit. Spaying and neutering would be more humane, no?
    I mean, why should the dog die because you did?
    I just don't understand that at all. Especially when breed rescue groups exist, sanctuaries, etc, and the capacity to set your plans way before anything should happen... I'm grateful Rina brought it up again in case anyone hasn't thought about it.

    Trust me when I say that I feel no one can care for my dogs quite like I can, but I have a friend that I met through rescue that I would trust to leave them with if I was in a bind and had to be out of town for however long, and I would trust her exclusively should anything happen to me and my husband to make the right decisions on my dogs' behalf. She's an angel in my life, I'm so glad I know her.
    And even though Tsuki has lots of allergies, and grade 1 LP, and Kitsune has social phobias and a bite history, I think they deserve to keep on living the life they were given even if I'm not there to share it. But this is just my view on the subject.
  • edited November -1
    Both Bella and Nola will go to my mother in the case of our deaths. But hopefully we will never have to leave them.
  • edited November -1
    wow this is a deep subject. Not that I'm bothered talking about it, just that I hadn't really thought about it.

    Well I have no doubt that our 3 cats would be taken in immediately by Jeremy's cat loving mother. She shares my passion for the 4 legged friends and would never let them go without a home.

    The dog, I suppose, would go to my parents. I dont think they would have a problem with that, but I guess that is a conversation I should have pretty soon.
  • edited November -1
    I don't know why, but wills and funerals have always been normal discussion in our family. Perhaps it's because my mom is a nurse and my father was a farmer, so they have always been up front about life and death. I think I'm the last one left in my immediate family not to have a will. I haven't worried as much because it's just me right now, but i know I need to get one written up. When my father passed, our uncle bought the farm from us, so the animals stayed. The dogs will continue to be LGD as they have always been, and my aunt is an animal lover, so I know they will be well cared for. When I get my dog, I will look at three options: go to my sister, back to the breeder, or I have two friends who works with shelters and are animal lovers. I know one of my friends does not look to have children and is an outdoor enthusiast, so she would be a great choice as long as she agrees.
  • edited November -1
    I agree with you on that fact Jen, 100% I'll not the someone's life just because my own is done with.

    My dad use to live in London in the 80's & It reminds me of a story he told me of a guy in the 80's [ I think ] in England. He found out he had HIV, and so he donated vast amounts of Blood to spread the disease, he felt if he had to die so did other people. Just sad.~
  • edited November -1
    I agree, that putting it as I did does not make it seem that good for Beebe if I were to die. Of course I want her to be happy and have a great quality of life, even if it isn't with me. You should never love a dog so much that you wouldn't be willing to place it with someone better, and there are certainly better dog owners than myself. Everyone I know and trust over here (aside from my mom) is so into their own breeds, current dogs or family that they would not be willing to take her on permanently (with her combined diet needs, medical costs, and training requirements). I support SPDR and the rescues here, and maybe I just have too high an opinion of what I imagine her current quality of life to be, but I find it difficult to imagine somebody else being able to match or exceed it. I guess I am just really afraid of something bad happening to her if I would no longer be there to watch her. Definately something to plan out more.
  • edited March 2009
    I have a deep emotional bond with Piglet. Here is a dog who when I get stomach bugs, she does, and vice versa. Here is a dog who when my arthritis acts up and I have difficulty walking, Piglet limps. She mirrors anything I feel. It is difficult to imagine any other person having a bond with her like I do. Honestly I have a hard time remembering that she loves my husband sometimes. As much as I aspire to be utterly selfless, when it comes to my dogs I need to humble myself often.


    But just as if I die before my husband I need to not be so selfish to want him to be alone (of course the Veruca Salt in me wants him to mourn me all eternity :P), I need to love my dogs enough to want them to have happiness beyond me.
    I have many provisions in my will in regards to my expectations of my dogs guardians if Jason and I both pass. But BECAUSE I love my dogs I do my best to insure that they are happy and healthy with or without me.
  • edited November -1
    I believe the reason why the breeder has decided to humanely euthanize all her dogs after she passes is because she believes no one will care for her dogs as well as she does. And she's probably right. How many friends do you have that you can count on 100% of the time? Or even have a friend who you know will change their life for your dog. What if your friend gets laid off or the place they are renting from no longer allows dogs or your specific breed or the weight of the dog? Can you count on your friend to move to a different place because the dog isn't accepted there?

    As a breeder, having probably at least 10+ dogs...it must be difficult to find that many people who they really trust to take in the dogs. I have a hard time wondering if any of my friends could even take care of Ninja for a weekend.

    I am not saying I am going to have Portia and Ninja humanely euthanized when we pass...but I can understand where that breeder is coming from. She is taking the responsibility of having her dogs humanely euthanized so they dont have the chance to live poorly or be overly-bred for money. Sounds harsh to some people and other's could understand.

    I mean when I heard of it, I was shocked...but after thinking about it...I could understand why they chose that path. No one can tell the future and what it holds for us. It's impossible for someone to say "yes, I will die for your dog before I let anything happen" but when shit hits the fan, will they?

    I mean how many people have you talked to who make a shocked expression when you tell them how much money you spend on their diet,vet bills or training? And what is their response? "It's just a dog" or "I can't believe you spend so much on a dog"
  • edited March 2009
    I need to work on a will as well, especially since my animal pack is growing.

    As it stands right now, here's the "line-up":

    Lynxiene's Options:
    ...#1 Her daddy (actual sire) and his owner.
    ...#2 My father really likes her as well so he'd probably end up taking her in. He wants her to become HIS dog once she's retired from competition anyways <--- he'll have to fight me for this one but if I'm no longer around -shrugs-.
    ...#3 Her breeder (owner of dam).
    ...#4 Placed in a working home with someone who preferably has experience with Malinois or experience with working dogs.

    Shoushuu's Options:
    ...in no particular order...
    - My boyfriend and best friend (same person) would probably assume responsiblity for him. He doesn't have a dog yet, but he really wants a dog.
    - Maybe some Shikoku breeder friends would be interested in taking him in???
    - Can be placed easily in a family home who don't mind an active dog. He is very people social, dog social and cat social. So aside from the jumping and zoomies...he'd adapt just fine. Excellent Alert dog.

    Kotomi's Options:
    ...also in no particular order...
    - Go to my mom and my little sister, if they have a place to keep a dog.
    - My boyfriend might end up keeping her or his family <--- his dad likes her a lot.
    - Sent back to breeder in Japan and live the rest of her life as a Show dog.
    - Easily placed as a family pet and even as a "beginner dog". She is people social, dog social, cat social. Has the zoomies, but she's not "over the top". Very calm and laid-backed, doesn't jump <-- so she won't knock over little kids!

    My Cat's (Fiskars & Mia) Options:
    - Go to my Mother and little sister.
    - Perhaps my boyfriend will take care of them for me because they won't have anywhere else to go.
    Fiskars is gonna be 11 years of age in May and Mia turned 4 years last November, so not sure about their "adoptability rate" as older domestic mixes.

    I'm not "planning" on leaving this world anytime soon, so hopefully I'll have plenty of time for this. We'll see -smiles-.

    This is a topic of great concern though with the "What if your time runs out and you have to leave somebody or a few somebodies behind?" What will happen to them?

    Thanks for "re-bringing" this up, Rina!
  • edited November -1
    Romi, that is why anyone who takes their dogs as seriously as many of us should have a trust in place for the care of their dogs after their passing.

    I have a fund specifically for my animals caretakers as well as an executor of my will. To hopefully insure that my wishes are carried out.

    I feel terribly sorry for any people who may not have at least one friend they can count on 100% of the time. I am beyond fortunate that I need more that one hand to count friends that I call my "kidney list friends". People whom I know would give me a kidney if needed and for whom I would do the same.

    I understand where people come from in the idea of "humane euthanasia" although I will say (I truly mean no disrespect) I feel that thinking a dog is better off dead than in a home with people who love it (even if they don't roast fish for them nightly) is preposterous to the point of hubris. If someone is afraid of their dogs being overbred after their passing, add a spay/neuter clause to your will.

    This is a deeply personal thing and no one answer is right for all people. And it is pretty hard to pass judgment on people for decisions they make about their families and death. For me personally there is no good reason to kill my beloved family members other than to end their physical suffering.
  • edited November -1
    I think if something happened to me and my boyfriend we would probably have his parents or his sister take care of them. His parents have several dogs and love animals and his sister is a vet so she loves animals a ton too.
  • edited March 2009
    I was wondering wouldn't it be more beneficial for the dogs, or easier, if a breeder planned out a contract with another breeder to find pet homes for their breeding dogs in case of passing. Wouldn't another breeder be better capable of find the right homes, and ensuring that the dogs aren't bred. Especially if this breeder is reputable, wouldn't they honor another's passing wishes in respect for the person and the dogs, should they agree to the responsibility of finding homes.
  • edited November -1
    WE discuss this frequently.
  • edited November -1
    As a reputable breeder, Ike's first mommy would be the best judge of where to place him under any circumstance, be it with her to continue showing, as her pet, or as a neutered pet with a loving family of her choosing. Before I even took him home with me, it was "If I died he has to come back to you."
  • edited November -1
    Jess, I couldn't have worded it any better... my sentiments on this topic exactly. And it is a really difficult topic for many [all] to think about/consider. I'm glad we can all discuss it civilly here.

    And now I'm totally buying that above mentioned friend of mine flowers or a roll of poop bags or something. She is, and I suspect will forever be, on my 'kidney list'. That cairn we are usually sitting/playing with? That's her dog. I would trust her entirely with my own.

    My husband and I actually have our plans here (as well as document living wills) https://www.mywonderfullife.com/
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