When Aki plays with other dogs, I sense that she is bullyish against smaller ones, and more respectful for the the larger ones.
Other dog owners tell me it's ok, that's how dogs play, but I'm more worried about dog than themselves.
Aki likes to swipe and pin smaller dogs with her paws while maintaining an upright posture. I usually step in and pause the play when it gets rough.
Also when she plays with her chew plush toys, she likes to
1) lay low from a distance then pounce on them
2) when she grabs them, she will shake them
Reading this article makes me wanna be extra careful in her future play sessions.
ps That reminds me, Aki once attacked and destroyed one of our fake decorative life like kitten when no one was watching her. She teared the scalp off the kitten.
Thanks for the article. Think I will share w/ the webmaster for our dog park website.
Some observations from the dog park:
Sukoshi hangs out in the small dog side of our dog park. She plays well with smaller dogs. Nonetheless, I watch her closely with them (and puppies). If she seems to be getting a little rambunctious in her play, I tell her: "Sukoshi be gentle with the puppy". This is usually enough to make her pause and look at me for guidance. If she continues to be a to be more forceful than I like, then I separate her from the small dog/puppy. I have also explained to "smaller dog" owners that Shibas have a high prey drive and may see smaller dogs as prey, so that's why I'm monitoring her behavior so closely. They usually appreciate this info. Actually, the dogs in the small dog side most likely to either pack or prey on other dogs are terriers. As a medium sized puppy, Sukoshi got packed on by terriers at least twice. In one case, I had to extract her from being packed by three dogs, two of which were terriers , the other a Basenji mix. One of the dogs, a Welsh Terrier, was permanently banned from the dog park because of his repeated aggression against other dogs. (A large portion of his behavior problem was his owner's attitude and crappy training- or lack thereof.) The dog park hosts different meetup groups. One to three Boston Terriers on the small dog side is usually not an issue. On the other hand, a whole meetup of ten to fifteen Boston Terriers is more problematic...
This is a really interesting thread. We actually take Violet to the large park section sometimes when there isn't anyone in the small park, or if the only small dog(s) in there are not well socialized. We always ask the people in the big park first though if it's ok. Violet is great with big dogs, but on occasion there is an owner who is uncomfortable because their dog plays rough and they don't think that their dog would do well with a small one. I've seen really small dogs in the large park before too, but those people always ask those in the big park first. I wonder if part of the problem is that small dog owners have already asked those in the big park, but not those who enter afterwards. This really isn't as much of a problem where we take Violet because the park is pretty small and you can see every dog in the park when you enter, so anyone uncomfortable will ask a small dog owner to remove their dog before they actually enter, but I imagine that there are a lot of parks where that just isn't possible. The park that Violet goes to also has a lot of the same people frequenting it regularly so a lot of owners know each other. I imagine it makes it much easier to manage any situation that might potentially escalate and contributes to the fact that people seem comfortable mixing dogs of different sizes where we are.
I'm curious whether prey drift is something mentioned or addressed in training classes. When we took a class our trainer explicitly mentioned it (though not using that term) and talked about the importance of breaking up the play between dogs at regular intervals. She specifically talked about how much dogs can get worked up while playing and that it only took a second for things to turn from fun to scary and how important it was to interrupt them as soon as their energy gets to the point where it looks like they'd be in a zone or that they might ignore you. She didn't use the words prey drive but she spoke specifically about triggers in the context of play between dogs of very different sizes and would even comment on why she chose that specific moment to interrupt the puppy playtime in class. I know that she has had experience with shibas previously so I also wonder if she addressed the issue because of Violet's breed.
Have other people had the experience of trainers in classes addressing this issue?
My trainer hasn't said anything about this type of thing I'll have to bring it up to see if she knows about it, but trainers educating people on different things like that would be good I knew about prey drive, but never knew about predatory drift before this thread.
It is normal for Aki to pounce on toys and shake them once she has them in her mouth. Koda does the same thing, and I encourage it. (With his toys, not with my stuff.) Someone can probably expand on this better, but that's part of having a dog with a high prey drive, and for some reason Koda does things, like pounce, that are very cat like. Thinking again, having to do with high prey drive.
I don't think that you have to worry about Aki playing too rough. That's puppies. If she isn't showing aggression, then let her play.
@MnV - I agree with Tara. The pounce, shake, thing is a common puppy move. They are practicing their hunting skills. The shake is the final step in that FAP, which is an expression of drive. You just don't want Aki to do it on a live animal, I would reinforce him doing it to a toy, and redirect him to the toy when it looks like he is getting too excited with other live critters.
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I think this is something that should be taught in training class as well, or at least brought to the dog owners attention, so they understand the dangers of mixing dogs at the dog park.
Also, keep in mind, it is not only a size thing. Any dog, no matter what the size, that has a physical disability can trigger predatory drift in a "normal" dog. We have this issue with Huna and his extreme HD, he moves like a wounded deer (or something) so we tend to have to keep him separated from the dogs with very high drives (like Ahi, Blue, and Masha).
I can tell you my hunting dogs WILL chase small dogs if they run away from them. Even my bird dog Hana will chase a small chiuhauha when they find out that they should'nt bark at bigger dogs.
Riki and Yuki once chased a chiuhauha so bad that the chiuhauha almost had a nervous break down. A chiuhauha entered our yard and wanted to hang out but could'nt figure out how to get out. my dogs did'nt kill it but they scared the crap out of the little dog.
Comments
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Jess - Yeah, it must just be a kind of "Shikoku thing".
When Aki plays with other dogs, I sense that she is bullyish against smaller ones, and more respectful for the the larger ones.
Other dog owners tell me it's ok, that's how dogs play, but I'm more worried about dog than themselves.
Aki likes to swipe and pin smaller dogs with her paws while maintaining an upright posture. I usually step in and pause the play when it gets rough.
Also when she plays with her chew plush toys, she likes to
1) lay low from a distance then pounce on them
2) when she grabs them, she will shake them
Reading this article makes me wanna be extra careful in her future play sessions.
ps That reminds me, Aki once attacked and destroyed one of our fake decorative life like kitten when no one was watching her. She teared the scalp off the kitten.
She destroyed this one http://www.perfectpetzzz.com/Products/PerfectPetzzz/PID-PP92-06BV6(PerfectPetzzzStaging).aspx
We still have this one http://www.perfectpetzzz.com/Products/PerfectPetzzz/PID-PP92-05BV6(PerfectPetzzzStaging).aspx
Some observations from the dog park:
Sukoshi hangs out in the small dog side of our dog park. She plays well with smaller dogs. Nonetheless, I watch her closely with them (and puppies). If she seems to be getting a little rambunctious in her play, I tell her: "Sukoshi be gentle with the puppy". This is usually enough to make her pause and look at me for guidance. If she continues to be a to be more forceful than I like, then I separate her from the small dog/puppy. I have also explained to "smaller dog" owners that Shibas have a high prey drive and may see smaller dogs as prey, so that's why I'm monitoring her behavior so closely. They usually appreciate this info. Actually, the dogs in the small dog side most likely to either pack or prey on other dogs are terriers. As a medium sized puppy, Sukoshi got packed on by terriers at least twice. In one case, I had to extract her from being packed by three dogs, two of which were terriers , the other a Basenji mix. One of the dogs, a Welsh Terrier, was permanently banned from the dog park because of his repeated aggression against other dogs. (A large portion of his behavior problem was his owner's attitude and crappy training- or lack thereof.) The dog park hosts different meetup groups. One to three Boston Terriers on the small dog side is usually not an issue. On the other hand, a whole meetup of ten to fifteen Boston Terriers is more problematic...
I'm curious whether prey drift is something mentioned or addressed in training classes. When we took a class our trainer explicitly mentioned it (though not using that term) and talked about the importance of breaking up the play between dogs at regular intervals. She specifically talked about how much dogs can get worked up while playing and that it only took a second for things to turn from fun to scary and how important it was to interrupt them as soon as their energy gets to the point where it looks like they'd be in a zone or that they might ignore you. She didn't use the words prey drive but she spoke specifically about triggers in the context of play between dogs of very different sizes and would even comment on why she chose that specific moment to interrupt the puppy playtime in class. I know that she has had experience with shibas previously so I also wonder if she addressed the issue because of Violet's breed.
Have other people had the experience of trainers in classes addressing this issue?
I don't think that you have to worry about Aki playing too rough. That's puppies. If she isn't showing aggression, then let her play.
----
I think this is something that should be taught in training class as well, or at least brought to the dog owners attention, so they understand the dangers of mixing dogs at the dog park.
Also, keep in mind, it is not only a size thing. Any dog, no matter what the size, that has a physical disability can trigger predatory drift in a "normal" dog. We have this issue with Huna and his extreme HD, he moves like a wounded deer (or something) so we tend to have to keep him separated from the dogs with very high drives (like Ahi, Blue, and Masha).
----
Riki and Yuki once chased a chiuhauha so bad that the chiuhauha almost had a nervous break down. A chiuhauha entered our yard and wanted to hang out but could'nt figure out how to get out. my dogs did'nt kill it but they scared the crap out of the little dog.