Mostly just buy it from the grocery store. I used to buy this stuff called Top Hand Raw Food, but it's just eastern BC and southern Alberta. It's a small operation run by Tojo's breeder.
For the dog(s), I just go to the grocery store and buy raw chicken, beef, pork, etc <--- the same stuff that humans can cook and eat! I use to buy Bon Chien from my friend <--- he owns/runs the business.
ive tried a little bit of nature's variety and im thinking to switch to a full raw diet. its either that or mix it up a little bit with raw in the morning and kibble (orijen) at night.
anyone have any recommendations? from a health standpoint, are there any negatives with a full raw food diet? so far i cant seem to find any.
Other than not having an accurate ingredient and nutrient content list, that company looks okay. I can't really tell much about the food without having those lists, but if you can buy it easily giving it a shot probably wouldn't hurt.
One of the negatives to a full raw food diet is usually cost. If you're buying a commercial brand, the cost is big. If you can do the home-made kind without leaving anything out and sourcing meats well, it often costs way less. Another negative to a raw diet, normally the home-made kind, is you can very very easily create deficiencies or excesses of some nutrients. I think for the most part, commercial diets are fine and that isn't a problem. Germs and bacteria are something some people like to bring up, but if you handle the food properly that shouldn't be a problem.
I've found that the home-made raw for me costs about the same as the cheapest two of The Honest Kitchen's formulas (Keen and Verve, contain grains), or the cheapest ZiwiPeak formula. For a 25 pound relatively active Shiba. I don't know if that would change for a larger dog or not.
As far as recommendations go, I can only really recommended The Honest Kitchen and ZiwiPeak, for those are the only things I've tried. They aren't really "raw" though, since the dehydration process kinda cooks stuff somewhat. One non-raw food that I have tried and liked was FreshPet but it's very pricey like most commercial raw diets.
I find the premade raw to expensive for me, so I feed a variety of stuff I get from the grocery store: chicken, mostly, but also fish and some other meats, plus additives. I can't afford the premade stuff for my three, esp. since one is 125 pounds.
Since you've already been using Nature's Variety, I'd stick with that unless you change your mind. And yeah, it certainly is a lot easier to just count out medallions than sort, chop, hack, sort some more, weigh, trim, chop, weigh more and finally bag up meals XD
We feed raw, like Corina, beef & chicken we get from the store that humans normally cook with. We buy whole chickens for .88 cents a pound, & they come with all the organs fully intact in the chicken itself.
With a 73lb & 32lb dog, the pre-made stuff was just WAY to expensive. I start them out on the pre-made stuff when they're puppies, & switch them over to home-made when they're older & I feel more confident they can handle the bones. [ start with chicken necks...I was told they're the softest. ]
Ultimately, it costs us next to nothing to feed them home-made raw. But the chopping can be a PIA! Having a chest freezer helps too. ~
do you guys ever feed them raw fish? i always catch salmon when its fishing season and maybe i can give them some of that as well. ive still got a bunch in the freezer, along with some deer ribs and soup bones.
It depends. Canned fish yes, other fish, not really, since I can't quite afford it.
Salmon (and related fish like trout) is very iffy. If it's not wild Alaskan salmon, it can harbor a parasite that is deadly to dogs. If you cook it it's fine, but raw salmon that's not from Alaska I don't give since I don't want to take a chance with it. Wild Alaska salmon is fine since the waters are too cold for the parasite up there.
Edit: I actually know someone who's Saint Bernard died of salmon poisoning about a week and a half ago. She doesn't know if the dog actually ate any salmon or not, but that's what she was diagnosed with, and she'd been at the Rouge River a few days before and we've got good salmon fishing here so it's very possible that she ate a piece of infected salmon.
I've yet to feed fish, just because I've heard of the things Losech said. I'm not a seafood person [ as in, none at all ] so I don't know what fish to feed, what it looks like. You could put a salmon or red snapper in front of me, & I can't tell the difference.
I HAVE heard I think it was, sardines [ ? ] are ok & have been thinking about giving them that as a treat.
Also forgot to add we give the dogs raw egg, & they also get [ raw ] scraps of whatever I'm preparing for our dinner. For example, if I'm cooking steak, I'll generally chop off pieces for them. Or I'll give them saw raw veggies which they both enjoy. [ carrot, potato, etc. etc. ] but these are in moderation.
I would love to be able to give them raw green tripe, but from what I understand, it's illegal to sell [ in the US anyway ] & the tripe you find at the store is cleaned & thus has no real nutritional value like the green one. So, I give them each a can of Solid Gold's canned green tripe every now & then, as I figure it's better then nothing lol ~
@sangmort - Osy, green tripe is not illegal it's more that it's hard to find stuff that isn't for human consumption. I was able to order some ground green tripe and spleen from Hare Today ( www.hare-today.com ). It's not as ground as the ground beef you'd get in the store, and it doesn't smell the greatest, but the dogs love it.
Saya eats raw fish mackerel filets, whole mackerel with bone, head, but no organs, whole pacific saury with head, organs and bones, and just gotten her some croaker to try it has the head, bones, and meat, but no organs besides eyes, tongue, and brain..
So far no issues from mackerel, pacific saury, croaker, and the wild Alaskan salmon I gave her she got 1oz of it once.
She gets caned sardines in water kind, mackerel, salmon and that's it for fish.
I find do it yourself raw much more convenient once I got used to it.
My pet store started carrying bravo raw! yummy! I plan to get some just for quick easy feed or for traveling to hotels etc.
They also had dehydrated duck feet yummy.. lol
Hare-today.com has goodies, mypetcarnivore.com has some goodies they sometimes ship I think not sure and only deliver to certain areas, greentripe.com is in california area and creston valley has yummy things too..
I got Saya and Bella a whole chicken only came with neck liver and gizzard Saya and Bella loves it.
Saya enjoys her pork ribs, pig's feet, whole quail, saury, and organs her favorite is green tripe and chicken she also loves quail.
I never heard of the pre made you listed or ever fed it..
@Calia - Sorry, I should've finishe the sentence. Green tripe is illegal to sell in a place that sells food for human conception [ Ie: a butcher's shop or a supermarket ] Hence why you can get it at Haretoday lol [ or as canned dog food ] but not at the local store. ~
I have switched bea to homemade raw. She still eats kibble on some days, but grocery store bought raw is what she gets. @sangmort--"But the chopping can be a PIA!" i def agree with you!!!
@ttddinh - No doubt! Tho we do have a knife that makes things 1000x easier. My dad bought one at Sam's club after watching some sort of demo, & got a second one free. He gave us the second one.
Anyway, he gave us the spare. [ supposedly it can cut through a hammer needless to say I was skeptical & quickly forgot we had it ] Well, after 6 months of hacking away at bones with a chinese butcher's knife, we remembered the weirdo knife dad gave us. Needless to say, It's amazing! I don't know about hammers, but this thing saws through bones like a dream. Even my little 5' self can saw away at a partially frozen chicken with it relatively easily. I think the key is it has a serated blade, & the sawing motion makes it much easier.
That, & / or we really just sucked at chopping chicken. LOL ~
i'm really lucky that i have a raw pet food supplier within a 30min drive of home. she super cheap as well with a pound of raw minced meat been around 35pence (roughtly 54cent). we feed green tripe, chicken and beef we also get chicken carcasses and wings and ox tails when she as them. i get free bones from my local butcher where i buy a beef heart weekily (this is the biggest expense we have but the girls love it) and liver and kidney from him. they get raw eggs and if i find fish reduced at the supermarket they also get that, normally thinks like anchoives and sprats, but occaionally they do get other things. they get tinned fish on occation mainly sardines but sometimes mackerel. we've recently introuduce pigs feet with mixed results, athena goes nuts for them but venus doesn't really seem to know what to do with them and actually looks disgusted when she has them in her mouth. my biggest regret is i didn't switch sooner.
"from a health standpoint, are there any negatives with a full raw food diet? "
Pros of premade convenient, balanced, and comes in different varieties
Cons Can be expensive depends some might be good priced
Can't control what's in premade unless you make your own grind. (coarse that's why you pick the premade that you like and like their ingredients.)
Some premade don't have things like kidney or heart, tongue etc, but you can always add those if you want plus the premade has veggies and vitamins so you don't have to worry..
Offers extra moisture to the dog or cat then kibble
Some dogs can choke on it (I know of someone who lost a french bulldog when he ate ground meat I had no issue with Saya she eats frozen ground could been due to the dog's short nose or maybe gulped it down I dunno I know thawed ground meat can be eaten really fast by Saya)
Pros of do it yourself raw I'm using my experience. Can be cheap depends if you have chest freezer and buy things in bulk or buy when it's on sale for good price.
Can control what your dog eats if you want to feed all or some grass fed meats and organs you can. (I feed some grocery meat, bone in items and organs, and grass fed from local farmers.)
Can offer wide variety of meats, bone in items, and organs
Act of tear the meat, crunching, grinding, and chewing on skin cleans teeth (I fin pork skin on pork shoulder does good job of that very tough and takes lot work to chew up)
Offers more moisture to the dog or cat then kibble
Cons teeth can chip, break or fracture depending on the bone, some bones are too hard and some dogs bite too hard onto said bones.
If done wrong can cause nutritional deficiencies (Feeding only chicken is not good they need red meat, organs etc. chicken if usually only fed when starting out..)
Some dogs can choke on items if it's too small and the dog is gulper best to feed bigger then the dog's head if it's a gulper
This site is pretty helpful mostly on prey model raw, but if you want do barf that's fine I'm sure reading up on both is good way to learn. http://preymodelraw.com/how-to-get-started/
I feed prey model to Saya hope get my own freezer soon so I can buy more things when on sell for good price and buy more whole prey like quail, and rabbit.
I feed pork, lamb, beef, chicken, turkey, fish, and sometimes on rare occasion deer, bison, and ostrich. Organs she gets beef, chicken, turkey, lamb, pork, and rarely deer liver, beef and lamb kidney, beef pancreas, beef thymus, and lamb testee. (I know testee gross.. Saya loves them and they're grass fed!)
I also give beef, pork, sometimes chicken and turkey hearts, beef, pork, lamb tongues, and chicken feet. Next year I'm getting chicken heads for source of brain, and eyes. I guess I'm more extreme with preymodel raw. I figure feeding everything is good way to ensure she gets what she needs.. When I feed her whole quail she eats the head, body, and feet even the feathers.
I hope feed more whole prey though she loves quail and liked the rabbit. She doesn't seem like she is different she doesn't chase the doves and robins who eat on the ground. hehe
Sorry for long write up and bad writing.
Here's some example of Saya's meals hope it's not too gross I can make it into links instead if need be. Chicken foot and ground lamb mixed with solid gold seameal
Lamb heart and chicken gizzards
Whole chicken before and after she ate the quarter and some of the tail area about 11oz
Some raw smelt she gets them as a snack or a meal if she ate a bit meal day before.
wow thanks for all the helpful info. im going to start out with using premade stuff for now and then maybe ill try making my own later. lets see how it goes first.
anyways i picked up some natural instinct today and ive posted the ingredients list below. please chime in on what you guys think. i guess ill have to try and figure out how much to give him. the owner of the pet food store that i purchased it from said i should give him about 500grams a day. i hear different things like 10% of a puppy's body weight, but 3.2lbs (1451grams) of meat seems like a lot!
i really like the convenience of nature's variety though and their food chart recommends about 22oz (623 grams) of raw a day so thats much less than 10pct of his weight.
@jikjak@the_november_rain Let's just say that I accidentally tried Nature's Variety Duck this weekend. And I gotta say it was like chemicals in my mouth. It's now made it to the fully banned list in my home. Don't ask. It's embarassing. lol
Those ingredients look okay. I'd probably feed that to Conker if I could get it for a trail or a short while if I couldn't make my own.
10% of the puppy's current weight, or about 2.5% of his adult weight, are the two calculations that I have heard. For Conker I doubled his weight at 4 months and came up with 25 pounds, and that's how much he weighs now, so I fed him the 2.5% of 25 pounds and it worked out good for him.
Comments
Harshan's and Bravo.
For the dog(s), I just go to the grocery store and buy raw chicken, beef, pork, etc <--- the same stuff that humans can cook and eat! I use to buy Bon Chien from my friend <--- he owns/runs the business.
Raw food for the cats I get Nature's Variety.
http://www.naturalinstincts.ca/products.html
ive tried a little bit of nature's variety and im thinking to switch to a full raw diet.
its either that or mix it up a little bit with raw in the morning and kibble (orijen) at night.
anyone have any recommendations? from a health standpoint, are there any negatives with a full raw food diet? so far i cant seem to find any.
Other than not having an accurate ingredient and nutrient content list, that company looks okay. I can't really tell much about the food without having those lists, but if you can buy it easily giving it a shot probably wouldn't hurt.
One of the negatives to a full raw food diet is usually cost. If you're buying a commercial brand, the cost is big. If you can do the home-made kind without leaving anything out and sourcing meats well, it often costs way less.
Another negative to a raw diet, normally the home-made kind, is you can very very easily create deficiencies or excesses of some nutrients. I think for the most part, commercial diets are fine and that isn't a problem.
Germs and bacteria are something some people like to bring up, but if you handle the food properly that shouldn't be a problem.
I've found that the home-made raw for me costs about the same as the cheapest two of The Honest Kitchen's formulas (Keen and Verve, contain grains), or the cheapest ZiwiPeak formula. For a 25 pound relatively active Shiba. I don't know if that would change for a larger dog or not.
As far as recommendations go, I can only really recommended The Honest Kitchen and ZiwiPeak, for those are the only things I've tried. They aren't really "raw" though, since the dehydration process kinda cooks stuff somewhat.
One non-raw food that I have tried and liked was FreshPet but it's very pricey like most commercial raw diets.
i guess in the meantime, nature's variety would be a good one to go with?
i like the convenience of just counting out the number of medallions needed.
With a 73lb & 32lb dog, the pre-made stuff was just WAY to expensive. I start them out on the pre-made stuff when they're puppies, & switch them over to home-made when they're older & I feel more confident they can handle the bones. [ start with chicken necks...I was told they're the softest. ]
Ultimately, it costs us next to nothing to feed them home-made raw. But the chopping can be a PIA! Having a chest freezer helps too.
i always catch salmon when its fishing season and maybe i can give them some of that as well.
ive still got a bunch in the freezer, along with some deer ribs and soup bones.
Salmon (and related fish like trout) is very iffy. If it's not wild Alaskan salmon, it can harbor a parasite that is deadly to dogs. If you cook it it's fine, but raw salmon that's not from Alaska I don't give since I don't want to take a chance with it. Wild Alaska salmon is fine since the waters are too cold for the parasite up there.
what is the name of the parasite?
i catch them wild in the fraser river in british columbia.
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/ClientED/salmon.aspx
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17422349
I'd generally not feed any raw salmon or salmonoids like trout just to be on the safe side.
Edit: I actually know someone who's Saint Bernard died of salmon poisoning about a week and a half ago. She doesn't know if the dog actually ate any salmon or not, but that's what she was diagnosed with, and she'd been at the Rouge River a few days before and we've got good salmon fishing here so it's very possible that she ate a piece of infected salmon.
I HAVE heard I think it was, sardines [ ? ] are ok & have been thinking about giving them that as a treat.
Also forgot to add we give the dogs raw egg, & they also get [ raw ] scraps of whatever I'm preparing for our dinner. For example, if I'm cooking steak, I'll generally chop off pieces for them. Or I'll give them saw raw veggies which they both enjoy. [ carrot, potato, etc. etc. ] but these are in moderation.
I would love to be able to give them raw green tripe, but from what I understand, it's illegal to sell [ in the US anyway ] & the tripe you find at the store is cleaned & thus has no real nutritional value like the green one. So, I give them each a can of Solid Gold's canned green tripe every now & then, as I figure it's better then nothing lol ~
thanks for that information!
So far no issues from mackerel, pacific saury, croaker, and the wild Alaskan salmon I gave her she got 1oz of it once.
She gets caned sardines in water kind, mackerel, salmon and that's it for fish.
I find do it yourself raw much more convenient once I got used to it.
My pet store started carrying bravo raw! yummy! I plan to get some just for quick easy feed or for traveling to hotels etc.
They also had dehydrated duck feet yummy.. lol
Hare-today.com has goodies, mypetcarnivore.com has some goodies they sometimes ship I think not sure and only deliver to certain areas, greentripe.com is in california area and creston valley has yummy things too..
I got Saya and Bella a whole chicken only came with neck liver and gizzard Saya and Bella loves it.
Saya enjoys her pork ribs, pig's feet, whole quail, saury, and organs her favorite is green tripe and chicken she also loves quail.
I never heard of the pre made you listed or ever fed it..
Anyway, he gave us the spare. [ supposedly it can cut through a hammer needless to say I was skeptical & quickly forgot we had it ] Well, after 6 months of hacking away at bones with a chinese butcher's knife, we remembered the weirdo knife dad gave us. Needless to say, It's amazing! I don't know about hammers, but this thing saws through bones like a dream. Even my little 5' self can saw away at a partially frozen chicken with it relatively easily. I think the key is it has a serated blade, & the sawing motion makes it much easier.
That, & / or we really just sucked at chopping chicken. LOL ~
my biggest regret is i didn't switch sooner.
Pros of premade
convenient, balanced, and comes in different varieties
Cons
Can be expensive depends some might be good priced
Can't control what's in premade unless you make your own grind. (coarse that's why you pick the premade that you like and like their ingredients.)
Some premade don't have things like kidney or heart, tongue etc, but you can always add those if you want plus the premade has veggies and vitamins so you don't have to worry..
Offers extra moisture to the dog or cat then kibble
Some dogs can choke on it (I know of someone who lost a french bulldog when he ate ground meat I had no issue with Saya she eats frozen ground could been due to the dog's short nose or maybe gulped it down I dunno I know thawed ground meat can be eaten really fast by Saya)
Pros of do it yourself raw I'm using my experience.
Can be cheap depends if you have chest freezer and buy things in bulk or buy when it's on sale for good price.
Can control what your dog eats if you want to feed all or some grass fed meats and organs you can. (I feed some grocery meat, bone in items and organs, and grass fed from local farmers.)
Can offer wide variety of meats, bone in items, and organs
Act of tear the meat, crunching, grinding, and chewing on skin cleans teeth (I fin pork skin on pork shoulder does good job of that very tough and takes lot work to chew up)
Offers more moisture to the dog or cat then kibble
Cons
teeth can chip, break or fracture depending on the bone, some bones are too hard and some dogs bite too hard onto said bones.
If done wrong can cause nutritional deficiencies (Feeding only chicken is not good they need red meat, organs etc. chicken if usually only fed when starting out..)
Some dogs can choke on items if it's too small and the dog is gulper best to feed bigger then the dog's head if it's a gulper
This site is pretty helpful mostly on prey model raw, but if you want do barf that's fine I'm sure reading up on both is good way to learn.
http://preymodelraw.com/how-to-get-started/
I feed prey model to Saya hope get my own freezer soon so I can buy more things when on sell for good price and buy more whole prey like quail, and rabbit.
I feed pork, lamb, beef, chicken, turkey, fish, and sometimes on rare occasion deer, bison, and ostrich. Organs she gets beef, chicken, turkey, lamb, pork, and rarely deer liver, beef and lamb kidney, beef pancreas, beef thymus, and lamb testee. (I know testee gross.. Saya loves them and they're grass fed!)
I also give beef, pork, sometimes chicken and turkey hearts, beef, pork, lamb tongues, and chicken feet. Next year I'm getting chicken heads for source of brain, and eyes. I guess I'm more extreme with preymodel raw. I figure feeding everything is good way to ensure she gets what she needs.. When I feed her whole quail she eats the head, body, and feet even the feathers.
I hope feed more whole prey though she loves quail and liked the rabbit. She doesn't seem like she is different she doesn't chase the doves and robins who eat on the ground. hehe
Sorry for long write up and bad writing.
Here's some example of Saya's meals hope it's not too gross I can make it into links instead if need be.
Chicken foot and ground lamb mixed with solid gold seameal
Lamb heart and chicken gizzards
Whole chicken before and after she ate the quarter and some of the tail area about 11oz
Some raw smelt she gets them as a snack or a meal if she ate a bit meal day before.
lets see how it goes first.
anyways i picked up some natural instinct today and ive posted the ingredients list below. please chime in on what you guys think. i guess ill have to try and figure out how much to give him. the owner of the pet food store that i purchased it from said i should give him about 500grams a day. i hear different things like 10% of a puppy's body weight, but 3.2lbs (1451grams) of meat seems like a lot!
i really like the convenience of nature's variety though and their food chart recommends about 22oz (623 grams) of raw a day so thats much less than 10pct of his weight.
10% of the puppy's current weight, or about 2.5% of his adult weight, are the two calculations that I have heard. For Conker I doubled his weight at 4 months and came up with 25 pounds, and that's how much he weighs now, so I fed him the 2.5% of 25 pounds and it worked out good for him.