Socialization from 4-8 weeks

tsukitsune

This month's Whole Dog Journal has a great article on Super Socializing your pup, and how fast that 4-14 week window closes...

Which got me thinking - what makes a great breeder in the socialization department? What do they have to do to ensure the pups they raise are properly socialized before you get to take them home (at 8+weeks).

And, how do they do this while protecting pups before they are fully vaccinated?

What kinds of questions should you ask a breeder to ensure a well socialized pup is coming to your home?

And at what week interval is the best time to bring home a puppy? 8 weeks to begin socializing as soon as you can? Or closer to 10 weeks so it has maximum time with its litter/dam?

Kenshi

One of my criteria for selecting a breeder for a companion dog is that they raise the dogs in the house as much as possible. Also, I think there should be cats and frequent visitors of all ages.

lindsayt

I think for more feral/aloof natured breeds, that sending them to their homes earlier would be better so that they can bond more with their people and get the broader social experiences that a breeder might not realistically be able to provide. With Shiba, for example, if being sold as a pet, keeping it with it's litter mates and dam for longer than that (after 8 weeks, the dam really deserves a break), would hinder it's human socializing process. Why create a dog that loves other dogs it may never see again, but is timid of people? It really depends on the dog's needs, what the breeder has done, and the breed.

Shiba pups are portable, you can put them in a baby sling or carrier and take them all kinds of places while still keeping them safe. I wish Beebe's first home had acclimated her to crate travel and taken her more places. I never asked but I should have. I brought her home at 9.5 weeks and she was/is incredibly difficult to bond with. I would rather have a pet pup earlier (6-7 weeks), personally.

Sangmort

True, however, bringing them home earlier than 8 weeks the pup misses a lot of socialization that they might have gotten to help them deal with other dogs. [ as well as people ]

I mean, like nipping / biting / developing a soft mouth. Pups tend to learn this from their littermates. While it can be learned from a human & should still be done to reinforce this learning, those few weeks are very important.

For example, my kitten [ while not a dog ] is a huge biter. She never uses her claws but always always bites. I knew this going in because they found her when she was 2 weeks old & was separated from her brother & mother, but I'm not entirely surprised. All the other cats I've had never did this. She missed the part where she learned her bite inhibition, I'm pretty sure it's the same for dogs. [ note: she does this when she's happy, angry. content, sleepy, exhausted, etc. doesn't matter. She just never learned it ]

It's also, My Humble Oppinion, that no matter how early you acquire a dog you can't change it's personality, it's temperament. True, while some of it may be external factors, a big part of it's what's been breed into the dog. So I don't think getting a pup earlier than 8 weeks would make a huge difference entirely when bonding with humans. Some dogs are just more aloof than others.

I mean, look at older rescued pups. They can still have a HUGE bond with their owners, & they definitely weren't acquired before the 8 week mark. I've even met some dogs who were rescued tho they were abandoned most of their life & had little human contact...yet they still really bonded with their owners. Some dogs love to be around people, some are more reserved. Some dogs love to be around other dogs, some just don't no matter the amount of socialization. Does it mean you shouldn't socialize them? No. Socialization should still be done to the max to increase the chances & make the dog accustomed to people & other dogs, even if they don't like them.

Temperment & Breed, methinks, are too big of a factor.

I do agree, tho, that keep a pup TOO long [ dependent on breed & level of maturation ] doesn't really make a difference either. [ unless they're holding the pup as it might have show / breeding potential ] For example, Large Breed Dogs such as Akita tend to mature slower, so I've spoken with a few breeders who will keep them til the 12 - 16 week mark to ensure they've mature enough & have had proper socialization.

---

The best book I've found that outlines the pup's mental development through it's life [ especially in the first 1 - 12 weeks ] is How To Raise a Puppy You Can Live With by Clarice Rutherford and David H. Neil.

EXCELLENT book, i highly recommend it, especially to breeders.

---

Questions you can ask a breeder;

Where are the pups raised? [ in the home, or outside ]
Who are the pups raised with? [ other animals, humans, children, etc. ]
Are they regularly exposed to people? Children? Other animals? Other dogs? [ safely ]
How often are they exposed to the above mentioned? Hourly? Daily? Weekly?
When does socialization begin? When they're born? 2 weeks? 4 weeks? After first set of vaccinations?

All I can think of ATM. ~

okiron

I admit, a breeder who has cats gets extra brownie points with me. It wont make or break my decision but it is a nice bonus.

Calia

It's funny, I talked to Kathy of Bali Hai, just a casual chat, and she said that she would take her pups to places like Home depot. You wouldn't think you could bring a dog into a place like that, so there are rarely any dogs there. It allows for the puppies to interact with people of all ages and types without coming into contact with doggy germs

tsukitsune

I love the Home Depot socialization!

Thanks for the replies... Lindsay, I find it interesting you think that way! What about your bond with Ike? Is that strained because you got him at a much older age?

Shika owners - what do you think? What is the best age (week) to obtain your companion pup? What should the breeder do to prepare the shika for human life?

StaticNfuzz

A lot of breeders like to do a mild or gentle version of Dr. Carmen Battaglias neural stimulation so that pups get used to being handled and develop sensory stimuli. It works well for some of the service dogs and some of the very young rescue pups.
http://www.puppiesanddogsinfo.com/episode-12-early-puppy-neurological-stimulation/

Dog needs to have the company of other dogs early and yeah cats are a bonus

As far as home depot I would ask before bringing dog in. Around here some of the stores have banned owners because of bad experiences.
Any place you take a pup make sure your dog is comfortable, welcomed, and clean up if an accident happens. Never take a dog to a crazy noisy place until it is ready....do all socializing in progressive steps building from lower stimuli to higher as the dog can tolerate.

Puppy-K is the best place to start out and ask questions specific to your pets behavior over the weeks that you go to interact.

Snf

lindsayt

That's just my personal preference with Shiba at this point after dealing with them. Ike is incredible with other dogs, not so confident when meeting friendly strangers. I do wish I had had a chance to get a hold of him when he was a baby for many reasons, trust is a big reason, but then he may not have ended up being so good with other dogs and intact males also, which is unusual for another intact Shiba male.

I would be okay with waiting until 10 or 12 or whatever weeks for a Shikoku or other larger breed, I understand they take a little longer to mature, but with Shiba, as aloof as they can be, I would rather have the pup in my hands. My little pack is well socialized to dogs and good doggy manners and I have the time to do the outings and go to stores and work on socializing with people, so I don't necessarily feel that I would be depriving the pup of any learning experiences such as bite inhibition.

Heidi

When we get breeding and have puppies, I've got a few things planned to help with the socialisation. First, I'm going to try that early stimulation thing. It seems to help, and it doesn't seem to cause any harm, so why not. I'd like them to have different objects to experiment with, made from different materials, maybe some noisy ones, so they get used to different things. You can also provide different surfaces for them to walk on, which will help them be less afraid of new things. Things that move, make noise, or look weird are important, too. Those are all things you can do before they've even left the house. Of course, they also get the benefit of a house full of kids, dogs, and cats, and they will even get to meet a donkey. They'll get car-rides, to get them used to that, spend time in crates, and I'll take them out to meet strange people. In the city, there's a park with lots of people, bikes, rollerbladers, and all sorts of things to see, so I'd take them there and just park somewhere where passers-by can stop and interact with the cute little puppies.