Aggression

Hey all!

Jenny and I held a little "couples" BBQ for 4 of July. We invited one of our friends who owns a french bulldog (male) to come over. Now, usually out of the two dogs we have, Jada is normally the more aggressive of the two. Playfully aggressive.

Pong Pong normally will sniff the new dog in her home and leave it be. The problem started though way before this BBQ. Pong used to come with me to my friends house and the first encounter between the frenchie and shiba was not so great. There was tension but no fighting. Constant growling and such.

Fast forward today, my friend brings his dog over and IMMEDIATELY Pong Pong went into full attack mode. As a precaution, I had leashed both dogs but we weren't holding the leash. I'm glad I did because I had to pull Pong Pong away from this french bulldog and I had to put her away upstairs because she wouldn't stop trying to kill him. Jada on the other hand was all happy and whatever and they eventually played for awhile.

At the end of the night, I wanted to show my friends my room (which Pong was inside) and I wasn't aware that he had let the frenchie down from his hands so when I opened the door it was immediate dash and attack. It was so bad that when I grabbed Pong to hold her from the fight, she was almost trying to bite me so I would let go to bite HIM.

This FRENCH BULLDOG is probably the sweetest dog ever. All it wants to do is play play play. I'm not sure if it was a female/male dominance thing or whatever, I wanted your thoughts on this?

Pong is normally the more calm submissive dog out of my shiba's so that's why I dont understand. My friend and his wife have a terrible view on Pong Pong and I absolutely hate it because she's actaulyl a super sweet dog. She's never shown this behavior towards ANY OTHER DOG ever.

Comments

  • edited November -1
    Katsu show's agression towards other dogs when they come over. It's her house and she doesn't appreciate other dogs checking out her stuff. It's something we're working on. Don't worry what other people think of your dog. Every dog is different, just because Pong Pong doesn't want to play with your friends dog doesn't make her evil. Both your dogs seemed great at the meetup. I'm sure some of the other members will have some better advice on this, and steps you can take to prevent this from happening.
  • edited July 2009
    A few thoughts
    - I don't know how Pong was socialized, but I know our Tsuki has a tough time 'getting' boxer/bulldog types and prefers spitz types (other shibas, huskies). We should have socialized her more around smooshed faced dogs with no tail as I think they are hard for her to read. She gets nervous around them, and runs away or growls for space. Our male was in foster care with rotties and boxers and mastiffs so he has no issues there.
    (Pong seemed fine with all other shibas at the meetup, if I recall)

    - How is the bulldog with other dogs?

    - How are the dogs introduced? In your yard? In your home? I understand this is a party, but its best to introduce dogs outside of their turf and take a walk or something before expecting them to play nice with one another.

    - How much exercise did Pong get before the company came? The less frustrated she is the better she'll probably behave.
  • edited July 2009
    One thing I noticed when reading your post was that the Frenchie just wanted to play play play... Now, that is fine if the other dog wants to play too, that is. Mochi is the same way except that I don't let the frustration escalate. Exercise helps a dog with frustration building up SO MUCH more than you would think until you actually see the difference between a "hyper" dog and an exercised dog. Anyway, Mochi has issues, especially with male dogs that want to play. If it's a female that wants to play, he usually joins in unless the female is trying to get him to play so much that it literally pisses him off and that's usually the very beginning of a fight (again, I don't let it escalate) I just walk the other way. Of course, Pong Pong would have to be on a leash to be able to do that with her. Another thing I would do is to let the Frenchie's owners know that Pong just doesn't want to play and that their dog needs to accept and respect that. If he can't do that, he will have to be put on a leash. If she will still start charging/attacking, she probably needs to let some energy to be released. A tired dog is a good dog ;o)
    It's just really hard to figure out what really triggers Pong's reaction by reading a post online...
    Other than that, you've already gotten some good advice regarding introduction on neutral territory, etc.
  • edited November -1
    I'd suggest that Pong Pong just plain doesn't like the Frenchie- no matter how nice he seems to everyone else. I don't like everyone I meet, either, and it is much easier to avoid people quietly in public than to have people I don't like in my own house. Respect Pong Pong's opinion, she doesn't like one individual dog. Perfectly reasonable. Maybe Pong finds the other guy too intense, too cutesy, a close talker, who knows. but it doesn't matter.

    It is hard to get other people- friends- to accept that two normal dogs simply just don't get along, and they want to find something terribly wrong with one of them ("MY dog is friendly, but THAT one's just a JERK!"). But it doesn't sound like Pong Pong has issues with other dogs generally. It is unreasonable to expect any given dog to tolerate any other given dog, at any closeness, but commonly people do, and it is just bad expectation setting.

    I don't know how old Pong Pong is- young dogs tolerate others more easily, but when they get to be 2 or 3 many very normal, healthy dogs close their social book and stick with their existing dog buddies, and this is normal and should be expected and respected.

    You CAN try to reintroduce them as others have suggested, to manufacture tolerant behavior, and it can work, but if they don't absolutely HAVE to be together then I say let them be, spare all of you the stress and don't force them to deal with each other.

    My sister and I have to keep our two males apart in the house - they can tolerate each other outside on walks or in the car, but we'd never ask them to sit in the same part of the car, or to be in a room together, or to play. Because my sister and her two dogs stay with us at Christmas the dogs MUST compromise with us a little once or twice a year, but since she lives 7 hours away most of the time, it does not outweigh the stress on the dogs or our relationship with each other to desensitize them. So we gate and we manage for a few days.

    I think it says more from us to the boys that "Yes, I know you don't like Cody/Sage, and I won't ask you to deal with him at levels that you can't abide." Because I love my sister, I wish that all 4 dogs still got along any way you combine them, and I know she doesn't LOVE Sage because he is the bigger, meaner looking dog and her dog is cuter and fluffier and HERS. My point is that you are right, It DOES hurt when friends think your dog is a monster. But you know she isn't, and your confidence in explaining that Pong and Frenchhie just don't get along will get your friends over it. If they respect a kind request to leave Frenchie at home next time they visit, they will see Pong Pong's true colors and maybe change their opinion!
  • edited July 2009
    Obuk is right, your friends should respect that their dog is on Pong's territory and perhaps they should have their dog leashed as well...

    case in point:

    Shao New LOOOVES other dogs, esp the 2 labs next door. When their owner walked up with them up the stoop to say hi when I was gardening (and pup was on a leash) she actually growled LOUD. My neighbor and her dogs respected that, stopped where they were and Shao New was cool and then they all played again, in the middle of the stoop.

    Sometimes it's just that, the other dog needs to respect Pong's turf, and if he doesn't, the owners need to help him with it. One shouldn't let it escalate (the only time I saw Shao New freak out go rabid looking was when a standard poodle wouldn't back off, and seeing as it's owner was nowhere to be found we ran over before the poodle's legs became her chew toy).
  • edited November -1
    IMHO, you should never expect a strange dog to enter your home w/o your dog(s) reacting negatively to it. dogs are territorial animals, it is at the core of their being to guard their territory and the things that provide them life (like you, their den, food bowl...).

    Bringing a strange dog into our home and just letting them run free would end in total disaster - and you know who would be the first to confront the strange dog? Our Shibas.

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