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Like I said, I remember asking you this before but can't seem to find it on the forum.
What made COs stand out to you? Why did you choose them over all the other LGDs? If there wasn't a US breeder do you think you would've imported one or do you think you would've went with a domestically available LGD?
What made COs stand out to you? Why did you choose them over all the other LGDs? If there wasn't a US breeder do you think you would've imported one or do you think you would've went with a domestically available LGD?
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What made COs stand out to you?
Well, I initially was not interested in the breed. The hype of them freaked me out too much, but one I started doing research and speaking with breeders I started to see that pretty much all the LGD have the potential to be a huge liability, especially if you want them to act in a guardian role. While researching breeds someone suggested I look into the CO and speak with Stacey, after I spoke with her I was sold - not that she sold me on the breed. What sold me was her confidence in her kennel and what she produces - all the other LGD breeders I spoke to would not say "yes, my dogs would work for you for what you want", they were always ducking the question - didn't project a lot of confidence in their program, IMHO.
Why did you choose them over all the other LGDs?
I choose COs over the other LGD due to 5 things:
1) Canine aggression is lower in the breed than other breeds. This was very important since they needed to live with our other dogs, and we have had good success - we only have a small issue with Luytiy and Kona.
2) They are man-aggressive, many of the LGD breeds are not man aggressive and I wanted an LGD that was both canine and man aggressive, but less canine aggressive than many of the fighting LGD breeds (like the CAO).
3) The ovcharka breeds are naturally suspicious and aggressive toward large birds - we have an issue with Eagles here.
4) Ruggedness, the CO can live out in the coldest of temps and in the harshest of conditions - we live in a rather harsh environment.
5) They are wolf-killers. They are one of the few breeds that actively kill wolves. Many LGD work as deterrent and are defensive, but do not stage offensives, the ovcharka breeds do. This was important for me since Coyote have found their way into our yard - I would want a dog that could take care of a cornered and very aggressive Coyote before the Coyote got to our smaller pups.
If there wasn't a US breeder do you think you would've imported one or do you think you would've went with a domestically available LGD?
No, I wouldn't have imported an LGD. Honestly I would have liked to have rescued one, but I couldn't find any that would work. I don't see the point in importing a working dogs, that has a high probability of being injured eventually. If I couldn't find a breeder to work with for the LGD I was interested in I would have looked at other LGD breeds - The CAO, Anatolian, and others....
When choosing an LGD, I think the most important thing to look at is what level of aggression you really want to deal with, what you need them to be aggressive toward, and your environment (including climate). Example: An SAB would have done well for us, but would have been to cold, our CO do great but can get a bit warm 1 month out of the year.
This is a recently published and GREAT article on choosing LGD breeds: http://www.sheepusa.org/user_files/file_713.pdf
Hope that helps! Let me know if you have any other questions!
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What issue do you have between Luytiy and Kona?
Yeah, I'm really interested in the Carpathian Shepherd Dog but I'm not really willing to go to Romania just to get one lol.
Ooo that article is very helpful. Errik is really getting interested in the CO now lol. I guess it depends on where we end up. A ranch in Norco or Riverside would be fine with a Pyr, mostly raccoons, skunks and a lone coyote or two. If we lived somewhere like you do I would want something a little more offensive.
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As for Kona and Luytiy, Kona has strict rules regarding space, physical contact, and and energy levels around him - kinda like a herding dog. Luytiy on the other hand has no issues with space or physical contact and and will go from 0-100 when he sees a threat. So, what happens is this...
Luytiy hears a noise he need to investigate and feel he needs to give a display (like UPS), so he spring from his lounging spot with a lot of energy and force and books it across the yard. Kona sees this, is interested also, but uncomfortable with the energy, and runs after Luytiy to see what is up. Luytiy gets to the spot and usually then turns around and runs back (or to another area) or does a display, when he does either of those things he usually ends up with Kona directly in his way and runs him over. Kona then gets defensive, (as his space, physical contact, and and energy level rules have just been violated) and attacks Luytiy. Luytiy ignores it but does growl back at him. The stimuli then goes away and Luytiy goes back to laying around - while Kona is "on edge".
Wash and repeat and you can see how with each incident Kona's reaction would get worse and worse. Eventually, Kona shifted from a defensive approach to a more offensive approach and would just attack Luytiy on the slightest stimuli - any time he felt Luytiy would start guarding it would trigger an aggressive response from Kona.
They never hurt each other or anything, but it still is a behavior (or several behaviors) I don't want them to practice. I thought eventually they would mature out of it, and Luytiy has mos def gotten better about running other dogs over, but the damage is done and Kona is not thrilled with being out in the yard with Luytiy as he fears at any second Luytiy will "freak out"... So, we keep them separated during the times that have the highest risks for Luytiy needing to guard.
We don't have this issue with Leila or Masha, so I think had Luytiy been here since a pup we wouldn't have had this situation.
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Do you think you'll have any issues with Luytiy and the baby? How about your other dogs?
How do you think your COs will do when you introduce them to your alpacas? (if you're still plan on getting them)
Can you tell me what these colorings are called?
As for the baby... I really have no idea, my guess is that he will bark at the baby's noises but then become comfortable with him over time. He will know the baby is here the second he is on the property as Luytiy can smell and hear EVERYTHING. So there will be no hiding the baby from Luytiy.
Having written that, I expected the same reaction from him regarding Masha's pups, but he has been pretty unfazed by them... So maybe he will surprise me.
We will have to watch him around Chase once Chase is walking as Luytiy will surely knock him over by mistake - same with Leila... Masha and Blue will be great. Our biggest concern is Maui, he's an asshole and he would bite a baby so we are working on that situation now. The others will be cool, probably indifferent, tho Ahi will FREAK OUT, she loves kids.
As for Alpaca, we dunno if we will go that route, I have been totally dead set on it but now that the baby will be here soon, I dunno if we will go that route. We'll just have to wait and see. I think the CO would be a little strange around the Alpaca, but then get over it and do their job - they wouldn't attack them or anything, just might bark at them.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
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That color is either called "fawn" or "red"... "Armenian Red" to be exact. Masha is a red, Luytiy could even be considered a red too.
That's Masha's sister (from another litter), her name is Mistia, she's the one that ripped my jacket.
This is what she looked like when we met her...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3506/3176153812_d3d674d504.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3379/3176155110_0e4fa0006b.jpg
COs change colors a lot as they mature, so its hard to tell what color they are as pups. Luytiy was that color as a pup, now he is very dark.
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With Chase on his way, we may not move to Colorado, we may (re)look at Bend, OR... it seems like a good family place, but we couldn't have much land, so that is why the Alpaca thing may not pan out as planned.
No worries about being nosy, you know I am open.
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