Is the red kai ken (akatora) rare?

Brego_mellon_nin

Hi all.

I love the kai ken, but I like the red kai ken the most. I think they're just beautiful! I don't see many of them though... Are they rare?

BradA1878

Yes, they are rare, even in Japan (relatively speaking). The akatora Kai Ken is said to add "a little something special" to the lines of the Kai. Because of this, akatora Kai Ken are coveted and rarely sold/gifted.

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tjbart17

Shigeru? Brad?

In the US right now they are rare, but that's our breeding lines. I looked into getting one 2 years back from Japan. I think it was $6,000 US. And that was from my cousin's friend. :-)

Maybe someday....

tjbart17

lol guess Brad and I were posting at the same time

Brego_mellon_nin

Guess I will not easily get one of those then, eh? ;o) *sigh*

TheWalrus

A very red aka-tora is very rare.

When the Kai was first classified as a Natural Monument the color description was an 'even' brindle (chu-tora). Breeding only darker dogs together inevitably leads toward solid black, and breeding redder dogs together diminishes coat quality and leads to solid red.

Most breeders try to keep a balance to preserve brindle in their lines without going overboard in either direction. Thus you get a lot of kuro-tora and chu-tora, and not many aka. Seeing as the kuro-tora have been favored in the ring for many years (a long story), the Kai breed in general has drifted toward the darker side of the spectrum. It's been noticed, so breeders are scrambling to hold onto/look for aka-tora's for their breeding programs. Also most people interested in owning Kai (yourself included) are looking for aka-tora, or at least dogs with a lot of brindle.

All in all the demand for aka-tora right now is probably the highest it's ever been. Most of the time they're just not for sale. Most Kai pups are priced at 500-1000 dollars over here in Japan, though some breeders will sell them for more. A friend of mine bought his aka-tora stud male for around 2000. While not impossible to find, it will take time.

ayk

Shigeru, I hope you'll share the story behind why kuro-toras had dominated the ring. I bet it'll be one of those fascinating "Wall of Text" posts. :-)

tjbart17

How much is shipping right now from Japan to the US? Does anyone know?

Sangmort

Tara - around $2000 for an 8 week old pup I think, for just shipping. [ excluding price of the pup ] ~

TheWalrus

If you're shipping pups to the States from Japan unaccompanied (cargo), it will cost anywhere from $700-$2000 depending on crate size and destination. Shipping a 2-3 month old medium size breed NK to most destinations Stateside you're looking at $1000-$1500. If the pups are under 3 months you can ship up to 2 in the same crate. Cargo shipping is calculated according to crate size not weight.

If you're flying back with a pup as check in, the prices are considerably lower. For example 2 pups in a medium sized crate to Portland from Narita ended up costing around $200.

I'll put a post at some point on everything you need to know about importing pups from Japan. It's not that difficult really since we don't have rabies over here, but there are a few things you would need to know.

Brego_mellon_nin

I'm not really super familiar with the chutora/kurotora colors. The kurotora is black brindle right? And chutora somewhere in between kuro and aka or?

TheWalrus

chu=medium

Brego_mellon_nin

Thanks, I thought so... :o)

I like the chutora too, and I guess it will be easier to get one of those?
But hey, it's not the color that's most important, it's just a plus ;o)

tjbart17

Yeah, I think they estimated to me like $1,500 for shipping, but the Akatora was going to be like $4,000 for me to purchase. I would like to say though, that I was going to keep him intact and would have been allowed to breed him. That may have risen the cost. His parents were gorgeous! I think I may have pics if they aren't on my old hard drive. I went over for my cousin's wedding and we spent a day looking at Kais. Too amazing! That's when I knew I would be love Kais forever.

To end, I am not a breeder. Nor do I want to be, but if I did import a good line with akatora or chutora, I would consider keeping him intact to breed here in the US with someone who is a responsible breeder. I probably will someday

tjbart17

Oh, and Maymay's import was really easy. It was a good thing to go through and was so simple. Makes me feel a lot more comfortable.

Brego_mellon_nin

tjbart17 >>
I'd love to see pictures if possible :oD

Who were your contacts to get an akatora? I'd love to have one. There is one breeder here in Denmark, and they have kurotora ofcourse, and the male they are considering breeding too (gorgeous by the way) is also kurotora, so the choices of colors in the pups are limited... Not that this should matter so much, but I'd really love to have an akatora ;o)

tjbart17

I would say be patient on that one. It is really only a color and does not change the demeanor/personality of the dog or the fact that a kurotora is just as much a Kai. It's difficult though. I look at pics of Haru and melt. I love her look and coloring. It would be pretty awesome to have one. But for now, I will keep my 2 kurotoras.

Brego_mellon_nin

You are right! It's silly to make color a requirement and I will not. But I'm allowed to dream ;o)

MirkaM

Oh, is there also a male Kai in Denmark? Or are they going to use French Kai?

BradA1878

A breeder Shigeru introduced me to told us that in the 100+ litters he has had he's only produced 5 true Akatoras. That should help give an idea of the rarity of the color. The odds of producing a dog like Musashi is like 1 and 1000 assuming you have the lines to produce it, which may make the odds more like 1 and 100,000.

Brego_mellon_nin

@brada1878
Ouch, well that must mean I'm going to give Shigeru gray hairs then Haha...

No I want an akatora, but I will settle for less red than Musashi...