Wow, Shigeru, now you got me curious! But that's private stuff (and ot anyway), so I won't ask anymore. Even though I love long (true) stories, since I'm writing a lot and life makes up the most fascinating stories... So if you feel like telling a total stranger your story, I'd be honoured to hear it, but if you don't I won't bother you. I have a lot of respect for you teaching yourself all the important stuff in life and about dogs and hunting, that must have been a LOT of work!
It wouldn't be so great of a stretch to confuse the Hokkaido and Kishu. The problem with the Kishu is that I can't see any way of finding out what's underneath or what still exists hidden in the breed, so the only thing to guess is full color vs. no color.
I'm not sure if there are really genetically black Kai's anymore. So far, the theory works without invoking another allele, K (dominant solid black) or a (recessive solid black). Could they exist? Maybe. The Chow is supposed to have K. I think the Jindo has a. I'm not sure about the AKIHO Akita. I think they had solid black in the unofficial standard but dropped it after no solid black dogs were produced for years?
Did I understand your theory correctly? The "e"-gene marks the basic colour (EE and Ee for red and ee for cream) and Kbr and ky mark the grade of brindle? (kyky meaning no brindle inherited)
Almost. EE and Ee is full color while ee can be considered removal of color.
So, Daiichi's colour would be cream then?
Um, yes? Depends if I'm correct or not.
One thing to watch is "dog lingo", which changes from breed to breed. We can call it a cream, but Irish setters, which have the same ee would be "red." In labradors, they're "yellow", but you can see really white dogs or really dark dogs that are referred to as fox-red. With ee Kai's being so novel, I think we're still trying to figure out what to best call them.
Do you have an example for a red Kai?
A red Kai, as in ky ky, could be Mochi's grandmother who has black whiskers instead of white/red whiskers.
Wow what a great thread and pictures. I really wish there was more info on the white Hokkaido.
Shigeru if you come across any in your journey with your dogs please post.
Comments
I have a lot of respect for you teaching yourself all the important stuff in life and about dogs and hunting, that must have been a LOT of work!
It wouldn't be so great of a stretch to confuse the Hokkaido and Kishu. The problem with the Kishu is that I can't see any way of finding out what's underneath or what still exists hidden in the breed, so the only thing to guess is full color vs. no color.
With the Hokkaido genetics, you can use my Korean Jindo genetic page as a starting point. http://www.jindos.com/jindo/appearance/coat_color.html
I'm not sure if there are really genetically black Kai's anymore. So far, the theory works without invoking another allele, K (dominant solid black) or a (recessive solid black). Could they exist? Maybe. The Chow is supposed to have K. I think the Jindo has a. I'm not sure about the AKIHO Akita. I think they had solid black in the unofficial standard but dropped it after no solid black dogs were produced for years?
Did I understand your theory correctly? The "e"-gene marks the basic colour (EE and Ee for red and ee for cream) and Kbr and ky mark the grade of brindle? (kyky meaning no brindle inherited)
Almost. EE and Ee is full color while ee can be considered removal of color.
So, Daiichi's colour would be cream then?
Um, yes? Depends if I'm correct or not.
One thing to watch is "dog lingo", which changes from breed to breed. We can call it a cream, but Irish setters, which have the same ee would be "red." In labradors, they're "yellow", but you can see really white dogs or really dark dogs that are referred to as fox-red. With ee Kai's being so novel, I think we're still trying to figure out what to best call them.
Do you have an example for a red Kai?
A red Kai, as in ky ky, could be Mochi's grandmother who has black whiskers instead of white/red whiskers.
http://www.jindos.com/kai/kai_colors2.html
I'll pull it down later since I didn't track down the photo credits.
Shigeru if you come across any in your journey with your dogs please post.
Snf