Good breeders AND good buyers
So we've had some great discussion about finding a good breeder, which I read with a great deal of interest.
But as I researched dogs and breeders and tried to decided if I wanted to wait for a JA or get an AA sooner (I decided on the latter), I started realizing that I wasn't sure what a good buyer would look like. Some things are obvious: being informed about the breed, being committed to giving the dog the best possible family, being honest with the breeder, etc.
But here are some things I started wondering about. Neither of the two breeders I ended up liking best take deposits, so I find myself in a somewhat unusual situation. I've picked a breeder, met her and her husband, met some of her dogs. She knows I want a dog, and I'm on the list. Now we're waiting for puppies, but the bitch she's breeding hasn't come into season yet. So...we're waiting.
And during that wait I've suddenly gotten all concerned about things I didn't think about before. What if the litter is really small and there aren't enough (or any) pet quality males? What if they are only long-coats (I do note she has had several LCs in the past) as I don't want a LC? (I don't care about color, but I really don't think I want a LC)
These are all things I feel like I can ask her about, and I will, but I really want a pup this year. What if there aren't any available from this litter-to-be? Is it unethical of me to look at other breeders too just in case? (As you can see, this is a time when the lack of deposit complicates things a bit).
I did turn down a possibility of a pup from the second breeder I really liked because I thought my GSD would live longer than he did. She has puppies now that will be ready in August. Probably they are already sold, but a part of me wonders if I shouldn't recontact her just to check..
I suspect I should just be patient....it's just never been one of my strong suits!
anyway, I wondered what people thought of my situation and contacting different breeders, but I also wondered about what people thought made a buyer--what's the ideal person a dog breeder might want to sell their dog to, and what kind of behavior do they expect from the people who want to buy their dogs. I'm particularly interested in how people think the business end of things should be handled, but any thoughts on this topic at all would be interesting.
But as I researched dogs and breeders and tried to decided if I wanted to wait for a JA or get an AA sooner (I decided on the latter), I started realizing that I wasn't sure what a good buyer would look like. Some things are obvious: being informed about the breed, being committed to giving the dog the best possible family, being honest with the breeder, etc.
But here are some things I started wondering about. Neither of the two breeders I ended up liking best take deposits, so I find myself in a somewhat unusual situation. I've picked a breeder, met her and her husband, met some of her dogs. She knows I want a dog, and I'm on the list. Now we're waiting for puppies, but the bitch she's breeding hasn't come into season yet. So...we're waiting.
And during that wait I've suddenly gotten all concerned about things I didn't think about before. What if the litter is really small and there aren't enough (or any) pet quality males? What if they are only long-coats (I do note she has had several LCs in the past) as I don't want a LC? (I don't care about color, but I really don't think I want a LC)
These are all things I feel like I can ask her about, and I will, but I really want a pup this year. What if there aren't any available from this litter-to-be? Is it unethical of me to look at other breeders too just in case? (As you can see, this is a time when the lack of deposit complicates things a bit).
I did turn down a possibility of a pup from the second breeder I really liked because I thought my GSD would live longer than he did. She has puppies now that will be ready in August. Probably they are already sold, but a part of me wonders if I shouldn't recontact her just to check..
I suspect I should just be patient....it's just never been one of my strong suits!
anyway, I wondered what people thought of my situation and contacting different breeders, but I also wondered about what people thought made a buyer--what's the ideal person a dog breeder might want to sell their dog to, and what kind of behavior do they expect from the people who want to buy their dogs. I'm particularly interested in how people think the business end of things should be handled, but any thoughts on this topic at all would be interesting.
Comments
As you know Lisa, hubby & I started looking into getting a dutchie pup since God knows when we'll get a kai or shikoku. I spoke to a couple of breeders, and the one I had "settled" on I thought was pretty amazing. He described what he thought would be the best pairing for us and told us the litter was due in June. While I think the breeder himself is really cool [ & I now know why he has such a great reputation ] I really wasn't too excited about the pairing our pup would come from. Regardless, I asked the breeder how much the deposit was & where to send it to be on his waiting list. He said, "Oh...I don't take deposits until I have the litter on the ground. I know people like to shop around for a while, so it's just easier to wait until they're sure they want a specific puppy on the ground to take a deposit."
In truth, I've found most of the [ reputable ] Dutchie Breeders I spoke to do the exact same thing. None take deposits until the pups are on the ground, & many don't take a deposit until the pups are a few weeks old. [ tho they do put you on the waitinglist beforehand ] While I was sure the first breeder was a good bet, & asked to be put on the waiting list, I figured in the meantime I would continue to ask around to see if I could find a good breeder with a pair I liked better.
Well, I so happened to found a breeding pair I fell in love with, & the stud happened to be the Dutchie that got me into the breed. I called the breeder, & It turned out she's long time friends of breeder #1, and they actually share similar lines & often exchange studs / bitches. [ indeed, the stud, Dingo, is going to breeder #1 in a few months to be used for a few pairings ] They also have identical breeding practices [ health, rearing pups, etc. ] I got put on her waitinglist too, but I thought the litter wasn't due til July [ misunderstanding on my part ]...turns out that was another pairing & they're due in May!
So the dutch pups are now 4 weeks old & I will be sending out my deposit tomorrow
So I will say, as long as you don't have a deposit with the breeder, you're good to go.
But seriously...most of this stuff is out of your control. These are living creatures being produced, so you just kind of have to say, "It'll happen when it's going to happen." Outside of going to a pet store or a BYB [ which I know you're strongly against & won't do ] you just sort of have to let the pieces fall where they may. The right pup will come to you, but it'll be on his time, not yours lol
There is what I would consider a great buyer though.
It would be someone who already has experience with the breed. It's just much easier to deal with someone on a more equal footing rather than a mentorship footing, and there are less chances of a return due to surprises or unrealistic expectations.
It would be someone who already has experience in various dog sports (conformation, obedience, agility, etc.), and is willing to try the same with the new pup.
It would be someone who would volunteer to do health/genetic tests on the dog no matter if the dog ends up being bred or not. The person tests so there's more knowledge for the breed and for the breeder.
It would be someone who can work the dog in its original function, like boar hunting for the Kishu. Or can give the dog has a valuable job like search and rescue.
And lastly, just for me, it would be someone who is capable of responsibly keeping an intact animal that could be used for the breeding program.
I did decide it might be ok to look at other breeders again, so I contacted one I'd already told I wouldn't be getting a puppy from, and turns out, she probably has one male left (she's still not decided if she will keep a male or a female, and one home that wanted a male only wants a long coat, hence the "probably"). I'm now in a similar situation to you, because I do like this match better than the other one, though this pup will be ready to go at the end of July/early Aug. which is now sooner than I expected to get one. She has a similar deposit policy, and some of her dogs are in the lineage of the other breeder....So it does sound very similar! Now I'm just waiting to hear back on details and then I'll probably have to make a decision....
Then there is someone breeding in colorado who may be doing a JA breeding later this summer.....but I don't know enough about that breeder yet to think of them as a serious contender.
Re: ideal buyers, that totally makes sense to me, Ann. I don't think I am ideal, given that I have the (difficult) Shibas, and I also will not be hunting with the dog, though I would be quite interested in getting back to obedience and/or agility (I did it with my GSD when he was young). I guess I'd say I'm good, if complicated, because I'll definately be very up on health issues and keeping touch, and do have NK experience both with Shibas and an Akita years and years ago.
I really think the keeping in touch is important. It would help a breeder know if there were unexpected problems in their lineage. I've had mixed results with this. The not so great breeder I got my female Shiba from did want to know about the issues I had with Bel, and did offer to take her back when it looked like I couldn't keep both, but then again, I'm not convinced the hypothyroidism that showed up in Bel and Bel's other issues really effected their breeding policies.
The breeder who bred my male didn't seem terribly interested in keeping in touch. She was surprised by his size, she said, and the hypothyroidism, but she didn't say much beyond that at all. And she was the "good" breeder, but may be truly only good in terms of having good lineage for her dogs. I'm not sure she's breeding Shibas anymore, actually.
When I think about this from a breeder's side, I can't see how they are ever able to let go of any puppies! Not only would it be hard to let the pups go, but I'd be so nervous about the homes they were going into...
----
IMHO, a good owner is someone who lives an active, stable, and flexible life, is willing to learn, humble, and (at least) mildly educated on the breed of interest. Patience is always good too.
I think this is the best definition. We need rep points on this forum! +10000 ~
I yam what I yam.