Temperament comparison...?

ala-chanala-chan
edited June 2010 in Behavior & Training
Hey guys!
Now... Yesterday Etsu ans I were spending the day together with a friend of mines and her cute Border Collie. It was very amazing to actually see the differences in temperament...
Now I am wondering to which "well-known" breeds could you compare the NKs temperament best?
On a German forum I found someone saying the Shikoku could be compared to a BC with prey drive, but since that estimation was based on the description in the German wikipedia, I am not so sure about it.
My encounter with Ayame, Izys Shikoku, fits to this estimation, with the addition, that she would "switch" her temperament on and off regarding to the situation. So she would turn that temperament on outside and as soon as something triggers it, but was easy to "switch off" in crate or when strangers kept her individual distance...

Now, my point is:
To which "well known" dogs would you compare the Shikokus, the Kais the Kishus etc temperament?
Just to have a clue what all those descriptions and words etc mean in "real life"... ;)

Comments

  • BradA1878BradA1878
    edited November -1
    This is a hard question because the NK breeds are so unique, there are not many (or any?) "common" breeds that share much of the NK breeds temperament.

    For the Shikoku Ken, I would say they are similar to a Malamute or Husky but the Shikoku is more biddable (but NOTHING like a BC is) and less aloof.

    For the Kai Ken, I would say they are unlike any more common breed.

    For the Kishu Ken, I have no idea - I'll let the Kishu people comment on that.

    I will say that this statement:

    "On a German forum I found someone saying the Shikoku could be compared to a BC with prey drive, but since that estimation was based on the description in the German wikipedia, I am not so sure about it."

    Makes no sense. Herding behavior is predatory instinct as is hunting behavior. So a BC has "prey drive" just the same as a Shikoku has "prey drive". I have spent a good amount of time with BCs and I don't think they are anything like a Shikoku Ken. Honestly, if a Shikoku Ken was similar to a BC I wouldn't own a Shikoku Ken.

    ----
  • EdgewoodEdgewood
    edited November -1
    Hmmm, I can comment only on the Shikoku Ken.

    I guess Brad is correct that they are similar to Siberians (and I owned Siberians for 35+ years before Shikoku), BUT, they are way more loyal and trainable than any Siberian that I have been with. They also tend to watch and follow you around (in the house), something my Siberians never did. I think that Shikoku prey drive is higher than that of my Siberians.


    As far as obedience, I would say that Shikokus are pretty darn good at it, now having trained (or continuing to train) 2 Shikokus. They are really smart and "watch" better than most breeds of dogs. Actually, I see how they are kind of like BC in this aspect (the watching you while doing formal obedience training).

    My Siberians never learned the "watching" aspect of obedience (especially during heeling patterns) even though they were trained well.
  • shishiinushishiinu
    edited November -1
    Yeah I have to agree with Brad. I work on cattle drives twice and year the the BC and herding dogs that are used are nothing like any of the NK. I have a friend who has a bunch of huskies and maybe I can see some qualities but imo I dont think the two are really similar. At leased from the huskies I have seen.

    To me Kishu's are more aloof and independant thinkers.
  • tjbart17tjbart17
    edited November -1
    Good question. I will have to say Kais are unlike any breed. This is actually why I chose to have two. They are so unique that they "get" eachother.
  • ala-chanala-chan
    edited June 2010
    Thank you so much for your answers, that really helped me a lot! And it is actually what I hoped to read... ;)
    I was a little bit jealous, that the BC was responding so extremely well while Etsu was more like "um, what? did you mean me?", but she responded SO well, that I know, that if it had been my dog, I would have been annoyed a little after some time. Like "can't you go sniffing a little on yourself or what?"
    Now I own a Shiba I know that this is really not the right breed for me. He is a bit too hard to motivate - and keep motivated! - and too lazy to make me say "That's my breed."
    From what I read and experienced the Shikoku was a great deal: Likes to work WITH the owner, easy to motivate, but doesn't need permanent exercise. So it won't such a struggle to keep up a Shikokus motivation, as with a Shiba/Akita? That's everything I want... :D
    Don't get me wrong - I LOVE Etsu and I would never ever give him away, but two of that kind at once? No... thanks... ;)
  • HeidiHeidi
    edited November -1
    I don't think NK and BC are anything alike. Sheep dogs are geared toward taking constant direction from their owner and working on a more daily basis (think every day farm work as opposed to occasional hunting). So, I'd say there are ups and downs to both, but I much prefer the NK. I don't think most NK are as hyper and neurotic as a border collie can be (they are so common, though, that there's a lot of variation in the breed, ie, working lines vs pet lines). I think sheep dogs like being micro-managed more. NK are more independent, less biddable, but they aren't as reliant on their owners for constant direction, which is why I like them.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    edited November -1
    Here's my NK comparison: Shibas are like cats. *lol* Not easy to motivate, lazy, aloof, contrary, curious and they don't like water. (At least this describes mine!)

    I'm not much of a cat person,but I love my unmotivated lazy dogs! I'm sure I'll be surprised when I get an Akita again and I'll have to relearn everything!
  • the_november_rainthe_november_rain
    edited June 2010
    Laura, what do you mean by "permanent exercise"?
  • ala-chanala-chan
    edited June 2010
    Permanent exercise was a bit wrong... I meant something like permanent attention and confirmation. So if you exercise them while being outside they work with you (as long as they don't detect any squirrels...), but if you don't do something and just walk quiteley they go sniffing around, having some fun on their own.
    It is hard to explain what I mean. >.<
    I like Shibas. I like their lazyness and their independence and I like that most of them, including Etsu, hate water, so they don't go swim in ugly water. But I'm a bit too active for such a lazy dog I guess. Etsu is often giving me the feeling that he thinks "Now, when can I get back on the sofa? I ... A STRANGER DOG! ... now, let's talk about the sofa again..." So I need a dog that has fun running when I skate and doing sports etc.
    But Etsu and I are really having a hard time with the recall. 1. He has to be hungry, 2. He has to be in good mood that day and 3. No other dogs/animals have to be in the way. It works, yes. Yesterday for example I could have let him off leash, because he was in a good mood and hungry. (the leash is 10m and stays on the ground as some kind of emergency leash, so he could run free actually.)
    Just to make sure you don't misunderstand me: Our biggest problem is not the recall itself, but the fact that Etsu hates to be touched outside and sometimes jumps away, when you try to, so once he's set off leash it is difficult to put him back on leash without worsening the problem by simply grabbing too fast. He'll probably never go without an emergency leash of some kind. That way I can bring him back in control without the need to touch him. That makes it easier for me and less stressful for him
    It would be nice if my second dog was a bit more cooperative, so that 1. and 2. don't count. I would like to be able to let my dog off leash sometimes in a safe distance from streets when hunting can't get it into trouble, so I don't have to keep both leashed the whole time.
  • the_november_rainthe_november_rain
    edited November -1
    "I meant something like permanent attention and confirmation"

    That makes sense!
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    edited November -1
    I love the description of Etsu's thought process....the sofa...the sofa! Yes, I think that is Toby's thought process too, interspersed with "food? Food!"
  • souggysouggy
    edited July 2011
    I don't think most NK are as hyper and neurotic as a border collie can be (they are so common, though, that there's a lot of variation in the breed, ie, working lines vs pet lines).
    There is a reason why Border Collies are neurotic: the herding locus found in Border Collie is right beside the locus idenitified to cause schizophrenia in humans. See here for a copy of "Single-Nucleotide-Polymorphism-Based Association Mapping of Dog Stereotypes" by
    Paul Jones, Kevin Chase, Alan Martin*, Pluis Davern, Elaine A. Ostrander and Karl G. Lark. Keep in mind, some loci are prone to breaking, as in mutate, or having linked genes and this could be one of them. Not every herding breed have this closely associated locus though, so there may be something else at play with the other breeds; but schizo locus is identified in Border Collies.

    It has no bearing on the comparison of common breeds to the Nihon Ken. It's just something cool to explain why some dogs are really neurotic, and others are not.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Sounds like an interesting study, but how do I get to it? When I clicked it said it was a google doc and wanted my password....
  • souggysouggy
    Odd. Try here: http://www.genetics.org/content/179/2/1033.full

    Anyway, apparently I fell asleep at the keyboard last night.

    Temperament-wise? I find with Shiba Inus, the temperaments vary so much, it's difficult to compare. Same with Akitas. Some are just as nasty as Chows, and others are Border Collie-like.
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