Jen-"tsukitsune" did an interview with (whispers) Cesar Milan
**So most of you remember Jen-”tsukitsune” and I asked if I could copy and paste this from her blog. She was cool with it. **
Interview : Cesar Millan, pt.1
Oh yes, it happened! And I'm posting before I'm asked to take it down...
I want to preface by saying that I am in my post graduate work, teetering on the verge of veterinary school with a focus on nutrition...or behavior. I haven't yet decided which, or to make it a combination of the two.
I still have yet to defend my thesis, which has to do with stress and its effect on the metabolic system.
My hopes in interviewing many leaders in canine training/behavior across the board will give me some insight into why our pet dogs are so...well, stressed. My ultimate goal would be to follow in Temple Grandin's footsteps to help revise the layout and protocol of many existing shelters across the US to lessen the stress factor and therefore present more adoptable dogs to the public.
To begin, I asked each interviewee some preliminary questions, then asked about their philosophy and beliefs, and how they hope this has changed the interaction between man and dog.
I also want to say that in whole, I find Mr. Millan's answers to be exactly what has been presented in his books (yes, I have read them) and for the most part his show (yes, I have watched it...carefully).
Although I may disagree on terminology and its definition, and techniques not fully explained or developed for the publics view, I'm delighted to have Mr. Millan's answers and insight to further help me develop my thesis and future study endeavors. I think understanding the man behind the curtain, as it were, is helpful in breaking down what we - the public - look for in a mentor, in a leader, in a public figure, and for entertainment. All of these things we search for directly contribute to how we interact with the rest of the world...and how we interact with our dogs.
Our dogs are generally a direct reflection of us - they look for a leader in their human counterpart.
And so...to the interview.
I want to only post a few at a time as I process them with the work I've done on my thesis. I have a basis and reason for asking what I did, and it will all directly apply to how I present my research for future studies on the impact we have on our dogs.
I hope these answers are read thoroughly and understood to be intended for academic endeavors.
The first two questions were asked to get a basis of understanding into how Mr. Millan became "The Dog Whisperer", and what this means.
Thank you.
1. I'm sure it isn’t a secret to anyone, Dog Whisperer fans or not, that Mr. Millan has a certain way with dogs that many people can only hope of naturally possessing. A sort of presence, if you will. How did Mr. Millan come to realize he possessed this natural ‘way’? Did he pursue any sort of formal training in canine behavior as a result, or did he find success without the need for formal training and/or certification? Did he have any mentors?
I grew up on a farm in Culiacan, Mexico where there were many dogs. I got to observe their behavior with my grandfather and with each other, both on the farm and in the city. Interest and observation over time is how I developed most of my philosophies, but I first recognized that natural “way” with dogs while working in a canine grooming salon in San Diego. I was the only one there who was able to work with even the most unruly dogs, and I was able to win their trust, loyalty, and respect. That’s when I started to see that quality in myself. I have read many books on the subject since then, because I believe it is important to be as educated about your passion as you can be. I listen to every perspective and point of view; every system of belief about dog behavior can have something important to contribute. My grandfather was my true mentor. He taught me one of the most valuable lessons I have ever learned, and still rely on to this day: Never work against Mother Nature; always work WITH her.
2. In line with the first question, does Mr. Millan consider himself a dog behaviorist? Or a dog psychologist? Why?
I think you can refer to me as either one, because I believe in this case they both refer to almost the same thing. Dog psychology is obviously different from human psychology. Dog psychology is about instinct, and instinct creates behavior. You might think a dog psychologist would be like a human psychologist; that they would sit a dog on a couch and ask it about its feelings. But dog psychology is about observing the nature of the dog and understanding how its environment and the actions and energies of the other animals in that environment affect it. A behaviorist would be doing the same. It’s all about understanding why the dog is behaving a certain way and using that understanding to work with the dog. You have to understand psychology to modify behavior. The goal is to bring the dog back to their natural way of being.
The next set of questions' purpose - for me to begin to understand Cesar as a TV icon and as a force that dogs do in fact learn from. I've watched nearly all the episodes that Nat Geo has ever produced for Mr. Millan and the stress level of some of the dogs is astounding. I'm positive that a lot of footage ends up on the cutting room floor before episodes are aired... and if they weren't dramatically entertaining most would not watch the program.
Like my aunt told me recently - that Stilwell's program was too boring, they spent too much time on explanations. The horror.
So these next three questions are my basis of understanding into why Cesar is portrayed the way he is on his program, in his books, and in his seminars and how this portrayal shapes how we approach his methods and implementation on our dogs.
I'm still left with many questions that I hope to get a follow up to...
Why do dogs react the way they do? Reaction = learning in a trial & error context.
Then why do they look stressed?
Should a dog have to reach a level of stress to learn? To be rehabilitated?
Is there a difference between rehabilitation (to restore to a better condition, state, capacity) and training (bringing one to a standard level/state of proficiency)?
Should there be a difference when referring to dogs?
The interview, pt. 2:
1. How does Mr. Millan believe dogs learn? Are they looking for a pack leader and follow? Do they need calmness and assertion from us to learn from us? Is luring them into the behavior we want (reward based training) a downfall of our understanding of dogs?
Dogs learn by watching who’s around them. To maintain a stable mind after learning it’s important that the source of learning be calm and assertive, which equals protection and direction. Dogs are learning all the time. They’re constantly making associations and taking in information from the world around them. To me, reward-based training to rehabilitate a dog is not natural. But to train a dog, it’s the best method. As long as the dog’s needs are met, promoting positive behavior with rewards is just another way to establish trust between you and the dog.
2. How did Mr. Millan come to use the methods and techniques shown on his television show and described in his books? Are they based on observation or scientific research? I have heard many refer to Mr. Millan’s methods as “compulsion-based”. Is this accurate?
It’s not a “method” – it’s about fundamentals based on my own observations from a lifetime spent around dogs. For example, by watching the behaviors of canine mothers and pack leaders in natural packs. But you cannot do any of it without the trust, respect, and loyalty of the dog. Without that, we miss the message of what I do. There’s a reason I’m not a dog trainer. I feel the human needs to understand 100 percent how to earn the trust, respect and loyalty of a dog before he can help him or condition him.
3. Is it important to him that people understand why he uses certain techniques over the others? I ask because it is obvious that Mr. Millan cares deeply about the welfare of all dogs, and aptly so has a disclaimer at the beginnings of the episodes to seek professional guidance before implementing any techniques. If people watch/read his work and try to emulate without professional guidance otherwise, is there harm in this?
Understanding is always important. I am very open about my methods. I use them because they make sense to me and work for me. I grew up watching dogs relate to each other in this way, and I think it’s best to treat a dog like a dog and not like a human. As for the potential danger, the cases in the show are not always red zone aggression cases or other cases that would be dangerous to take on without professional help. Many of them have a lot of information to offer for people whose dogs are not endangering themselves or others. I do absolutely recommend seeking professional help for any situation you are unsure of. And I certainly hope that viewers will take that recommendation seriously enough to avoid putting themselves or their dog in any dangerous situations.
Well. I'd like to say these questions were helpful, and maybe in a way they were in the long run, but I still have a ton of work to do on my thesis research to be able to use the answers appropriately and with merit. I did not interview the man to downplay, mock, or misrepresent him. I did it for a better understanding of what dogs go through, and what influences the people who put them through it.
I think they help me understand him. I still have a tough time sitting through episodes. And I still wince when people misuse terms they have been ingrained with my watching those same episodes. And my heart aches when I see dogs get incredibly stressed by inappropriate punishments, as seen on TV.
So here is the final piece of my e-interview with tv's Dog Whisperer, Cesar Millan.
1. How would Mr. Millan define Dominance?
That word has become a “dirty” word in some dog training circles, even though it has been used to describe wolf pack dynamics for at least fifty years. Even wolf researchers (observing wild packs of wolves) are now saying the wolf-pack is more of a family unit, so dominance may not be the correct term. Would Mr. Millan differ in that opinion, about wolf packs being more like benevolent leadership-type family units?
It’s semantics. Throughout history, humans agree and disagree. The mother of a pack of wolves must lead. This means she provides direction and protection and has the trust, respect, and loyalty of her pack – that is the definition of dominance. It’s not a word, it’s a feeling. Think of Oprah or your favorite world championship sports team. We say they “dominate” – it’s not about being mean. It’s masterful control of a situation.
2. Does Mr. Millan see any difference in dog breeds? Has there been any tendency in certain breeds/types of dogs that are more challenging and wouldn’t be advisable for first time dog owners to pursue? Are there any breeds/types of dogs that would be perfect for a first time dog owner?
I always say that a person who wants to adopt a dog should look at energy first. Certain breeds are known for certain energy levels. If you are the kind of person who prefers to sit inside with a good book and keep things nice and quiet, a high-energy dog is not a good fit for you. But if you wake up at five o’clock every morning and run three miles, then go hiking in the mountains in the afternoon, you would do well with a very high-energy dog. Your dog’s energy should always be equal to or less than your own. Every first-time dog owner is different. There is no one kind of dog that would make a good fit for that whole group, even as a general rule. People who want to adopt a dog for the first time should take some time for self-reflection. Once they have identified their own energy and when they know what they want in a canine companion, they should do their research. Take time to get to know each other before you fall in love. Don’t fall for cuteness or feel sorry for them or get overexcited about getting a dog. Think about becoming part of a foster group first and get a taste for what life with a dog would be like for you. Know you’re ready and know your energy and lifestyle before you adopt.
3. I believe Mr. Millan has been a major component in the general public of dog owners realizing that their dogs are not furry people. He has also been a leader in the catalyst of many who never considered the benefits of normal exercise and mental stimulation for their dogs. What does Mr. Millan hope his legacy will be? Are his children following in his footsteps?
My children have many of their own interests. They enjoy helping me do my job, and with all the dogs in our house, they are getting the same hands-on education that I got in my hometown as a child, but I don’t believe they will follow directly in my footsteps. But because they have that knowledge of dog behavior as a result of seeing and understanding the interaction between dogs and humans, they are part of what I hope my legacy will be. I want the world to have a better understanding of dogs and the way they interact with each other and with their human companions. I would like this message to reach everyone, and in time, change the relationship between humans and dogs for the better.
***I should also tell you that Cesar's camp decided not to answer three questions that I sent with that interview... About his methods causing excess or unnecessary stress in dogs, about the term red zone and its origin, and about his Mexican background leading to his machismo stance on why one should be assertive and dominant. Those were the juicy questions he chose to not answer
****
Interview : Cesar Millan, pt.1
Oh yes, it happened! And I'm posting before I'm asked to take it down...
I want to preface by saying that I am in my post graduate work, teetering on the verge of veterinary school with a focus on nutrition...or behavior. I haven't yet decided which, or to make it a combination of the two.
I still have yet to defend my thesis, which has to do with stress and its effect on the metabolic system.
My hopes in interviewing many leaders in canine training/behavior across the board will give me some insight into why our pet dogs are so...well, stressed. My ultimate goal would be to follow in Temple Grandin's footsteps to help revise the layout and protocol of many existing shelters across the US to lessen the stress factor and therefore present more adoptable dogs to the public.
To begin, I asked each interviewee some preliminary questions, then asked about their philosophy and beliefs, and how they hope this has changed the interaction between man and dog.
I also want to say that in whole, I find Mr. Millan's answers to be exactly what has been presented in his books (yes, I have read them) and for the most part his show (yes, I have watched it...carefully).
Although I may disagree on terminology and its definition, and techniques not fully explained or developed for the publics view, I'm delighted to have Mr. Millan's answers and insight to further help me develop my thesis and future study endeavors. I think understanding the man behind the curtain, as it were, is helpful in breaking down what we - the public - look for in a mentor, in a leader, in a public figure, and for entertainment. All of these things we search for directly contribute to how we interact with the rest of the world...and how we interact with our dogs.
Our dogs are generally a direct reflection of us - they look for a leader in their human counterpart.
And so...to the interview.
I want to only post a few at a time as I process them with the work I've done on my thesis. I have a basis and reason for asking what I did, and it will all directly apply to how I present my research for future studies on the impact we have on our dogs.
I hope these answers are read thoroughly and understood to be intended for academic endeavors.
The first two questions were asked to get a basis of understanding into how Mr. Millan became "The Dog Whisperer", and what this means.
Thank you.
1. I'm sure it isn’t a secret to anyone, Dog Whisperer fans or not, that Mr. Millan has a certain way with dogs that many people can only hope of naturally possessing. A sort of presence, if you will. How did Mr. Millan come to realize he possessed this natural ‘way’? Did he pursue any sort of formal training in canine behavior as a result, or did he find success without the need for formal training and/or certification? Did he have any mentors?
I grew up on a farm in Culiacan, Mexico where there were many dogs. I got to observe their behavior with my grandfather and with each other, both on the farm and in the city. Interest and observation over time is how I developed most of my philosophies, but I first recognized that natural “way” with dogs while working in a canine grooming salon in San Diego. I was the only one there who was able to work with even the most unruly dogs, and I was able to win their trust, loyalty, and respect. That’s when I started to see that quality in myself. I have read many books on the subject since then, because I believe it is important to be as educated about your passion as you can be. I listen to every perspective and point of view; every system of belief about dog behavior can have something important to contribute. My grandfather was my true mentor. He taught me one of the most valuable lessons I have ever learned, and still rely on to this day: Never work against Mother Nature; always work WITH her.
2. In line with the first question, does Mr. Millan consider himself a dog behaviorist? Or a dog psychologist? Why?
I think you can refer to me as either one, because I believe in this case they both refer to almost the same thing. Dog psychology is obviously different from human psychology. Dog psychology is about instinct, and instinct creates behavior. You might think a dog psychologist would be like a human psychologist; that they would sit a dog on a couch and ask it about its feelings. But dog psychology is about observing the nature of the dog and understanding how its environment and the actions and energies of the other animals in that environment affect it. A behaviorist would be doing the same. It’s all about understanding why the dog is behaving a certain way and using that understanding to work with the dog. You have to understand psychology to modify behavior. The goal is to bring the dog back to their natural way of being.
The next set of questions' purpose - for me to begin to understand Cesar as a TV icon and as a force that dogs do in fact learn from. I've watched nearly all the episodes that Nat Geo has ever produced for Mr. Millan and the stress level of some of the dogs is astounding. I'm positive that a lot of footage ends up on the cutting room floor before episodes are aired... and if they weren't dramatically entertaining most would not watch the program.
Like my aunt told me recently - that Stilwell's program was too boring, they spent too much time on explanations. The horror.
So these next three questions are my basis of understanding into why Cesar is portrayed the way he is on his program, in his books, and in his seminars and how this portrayal shapes how we approach his methods and implementation on our dogs.
I'm still left with many questions that I hope to get a follow up to...
Why do dogs react the way they do? Reaction = learning in a trial & error context.
Then why do they look stressed?
Should a dog have to reach a level of stress to learn? To be rehabilitated?
Is there a difference between rehabilitation (to restore to a better condition, state, capacity) and training (bringing one to a standard level/state of proficiency)?
Should there be a difference when referring to dogs?
The interview, pt. 2:
1. How does Mr. Millan believe dogs learn? Are they looking for a pack leader and follow? Do they need calmness and assertion from us to learn from us? Is luring them into the behavior we want (reward based training) a downfall of our understanding of dogs?
Dogs learn by watching who’s around them. To maintain a stable mind after learning it’s important that the source of learning be calm and assertive, which equals protection and direction. Dogs are learning all the time. They’re constantly making associations and taking in information from the world around them. To me, reward-based training to rehabilitate a dog is not natural. But to train a dog, it’s the best method. As long as the dog’s needs are met, promoting positive behavior with rewards is just another way to establish trust between you and the dog.
2. How did Mr. Millan come to use the methods and techniques shown on his television show and described in his books? Are they based on observation or scientific research? I have heard many refer to Mr. Millan’s methods as “compulsion-based”. Is this accurate?
It’s not a “method” – it’s about fundamentals based on my own observations from a lifetime spent around dogs. For example, by watching the behaviors of canine mothers and pack leaders in natural packs. But you cannot do any of it without the trust, respect, and loyalty of the dog. Without that, we miss the message of what I do. There’s a reason I’m not a dog trainer. I feel the human needs to understand 100 percent how to earn the trust, respect and loyalty of a dog before he can help him or condition him.
3. Is it important to him that people understand why he uses certain techniques over the others? I ask because it is obvious that Mr. Millan cares deeply about the welfare of all dogs, and aptly so has a disclaimer at the beginnings of the episodes to seek professional guidance before implementing any techniques. If people watch/read his work and try to emulate without professional guidance otherwise, is there harm in this?
Understanding is always important. I am very open about my methods. I use them because they make sense to me and work for me. I grew up watching dogs relate to each other in this way, and I think it’s best to treat a dog like a dog and not like a human. As for the potential danger, the cases in the show are not always red zone aggression cases or other cases that would be dangerous to take on without professional help. Many of them have a lot of information to offer for people whose dogs are not endangering themselves or others. I do absolutely recommend seeking professional help for any situation you are unsure of. And I certainly hope that viewers will take that recommendation seriously enough to avoid putting themselves or their dog in any dangerous situations.
Well. I'd like to say these questions were helpful, and maybe in a way they were in the long run, but I still have a ton of work to do on my thesis research to be able to use the answers appropriately and with merit. I did not interview the man to downplay, mock, or misrepresent him. I did it for a better understanding of what dogs go through, and what influences the people who put them through it.
I think they help me understand him. I still have a tough time sitting through episodes. And I still wince when people misuse terms they have been ingrained with my watching those same episodes. And my heart aches when I see dogs get incredibly stressed by inappropriate punishments, as seen on TV.
So here is the final piece of my e-interview with tv's Dog Whisperer, Cesar Millan.
1. How would Mr. Millan define Dominance?
That word has become a “dirty” word in some dog training circles, even though it has been used to describe wolf pack dynamics for at least fifty years. Even wolf researchers (observing wild packs of wolves) are now saying the wolf-pack is more of a family unit, so dominance may not be the correct term. Would Mr. Millan differ in that opinion, about wolf packs being more like benevolent leadership-type family units?
It’s semantics. Throughout history, humans agree and disagree. The mother of a pack of wolves must lead. This means she provides direction and protection and has the trust, respect, and loyalty of her pack – that is the definition of dominance. It’s not a word, it’s a feeling. Think of Oprah or your favorite world championship sports team. We say they “dominate” – it’s not about being mean. It’s masterful control of a situation.
2. Does Mr. Millan see any difference in dog breeds? Has there been any tendency in certain breeds/types of dogs that are more challenging and wouldn’t be advisable for first time dog owners to pursue? Are there any breeds/types of dogs that would be perfect for a first time dog owner?
I always say that a person who wants to adopt a dog should look at energy first. Certain breeds are known for certain energy levels. If you are the kind of person who prefers to sit inside with a good book and keep things nice and quiet, a high-energy dog is not a good fit for you. But if you wake up at five o’clock every morning and run three miles, then go hiking in the mountains in the afternoon, you would do well with a very high-energy dog. Your dog’s energy should always be equal to or less than your own. Every first-time dog owner is different. There is no one kind of dog that would make a good fit for that whole group, even as a general rule. People who want to adopt a dog for the first time should take some time for self-reflection. Once they have identified their own energy and when they know what they want in a canine companion, they should do their research. Take time to get to know each other before you fall in love. Don’t fall for cuteness or feel sorry for them or get overexcited about getting a dog. Think about becoming part of a foster group first and get a taste for what life with a dog would be like for you. Know you’re ready and know your energy and lifestyle before you adopt.
3. I believe Mr. Millan has been a major component in the general public of dog owners realizing that their dogs are not furry people. He has also been a leader in the catalyst of many who never considered the benefits of normal exercise and mental stimulation for their dogs. What does Mr. Millan hope his legacy will be? Are his children following in his footsteps?
My children have many of their own interests. They enjoy helping me do my job, and with all the dogs in our house, they are getting the same hands-on education that I got in my hometown as a child, but I don’t believe they will follow directly in my footsteps. But because they have that knowledge of dog behavior as a result of seeing and understanding the interaction between dogs and humans, they are part of what I hope my legacy will be. I want the world to have a better understanding of dogs and the way they interact with each other and with their human companions. I would like this message to reach everyone, and in time, change the relationship between humans and dogs for the better.
***I should also tell you that Cesar's camp decided not to answer three questions that I sent with that interview... About his methods causing excess or unnecessary stress in dogs, about the term red zone and its origin, and about his Mexican background leading to his machismo stance on why one should be assertive and dominant. Those were the juicy questions he chose to not answer
****
Comments
It doesn't change my opinion of his methods, but it softens my opinion of him as a person. Just a little.
I'm glad he didn't answer the question about being Mexican.....that question really rubbed me the wrong way...But I do wish he'd answered the question about stress.