That was wildly cool.....great watching the dogs work.....and of course, now it makes me want an Anatolian even more than I did before!
Well, I have this fantasy of moving more into the country than I already live and having more animals--maybe I can get an Anatolian when I have my little fantasy farm.
That's a really cool vid. I agree with @dlroberts and @TheWalrus I LOVE to see working dogs work. I think that is why I'm so drawn to our LGD now, because I see them work - maybe not a serious work as these dogs in the video, but they still have a job and take it just a seriously. Love it!
I love my CO, and I'm pretty committed to them at this points, but I think an Anatolian may have been a better choice for our needs here due to climate.
I knew Rui ( @Leonberger ) would post in this thread - he loves him some Anatolian Shepherds. )
I just had an Anatolian encounter--was at the mailbox and heard an odd sound, and saw that one field over from the mailboxes were some alpacas (they make some odd noises!), so decided to take my pup on a walk over there to check them out....and not only were there alpacas and a couple of goats, but there were two anatolians on patrol (and the cutest collie puppy too!). Now I'm going to be all geeky and stalking my neighbor--I want to ask how well the Anatolians have been doing as LGDs....esp. with all the coyote problems we've been having here (and bears too apparently, though I haven't seen them myself). The dogs were not at all interested in me, but were very suspicious of Oskar, so I presume they're pretty good at their job....
What exactly is the difference between anatolian, kangal, kangallar and akbash? Is it the same thing, different names or they are different breeds? Over here for example I think we call anatolians Kangals, but sometimes the other names are used too, it's a bit confusing.
Anatolians and Kangals are different breeds. There are slight physical differences, but they are different breeds. They get mixed up a lot from what I've heard too.
Are you sure they're different breeds? Or a case where an outsider decided "This is an Anatolian breed" when they are actually a subset of a much larger landrace breed?
Interesting, since Turkey is like... just around the corner for us and you seem to know much more about it than I do. I may be wrong, but I think it's illegal to take Kangals out of Turkey. I'll have to investigate more to see if it's true and if this applies to their other breeds.
I was wondering about this exact same thing (kangals vs. anatolians) and kept trying to decide if I should start a new thread or just ask it here, but yay, someone asked for me.
I was reading a lot about these two last night, and it looks like it is now legal to take Kangals out of the country--there are some breeders in the US. I believe from my reading that they are two different breeds...at least that's what the breeders say (one said Kangals are slightly less barky than anatolians, for example).
But I'm certainly no expert--just infatuated with them and spent hours online reading last night I even had a dream about them! (Like I need another dog!)
Ruh ro Lisa! You're getting close to that point where you're going to have to surrender and get one. For me that point comes when I realize I'm thinking about something during the 3 step walk from my bed to the alarm clock on the other side of the room. lol.
@shibamistress - There is a really nice Anatolian breeder in the Santa Fe area. I'd be happy to go visit with you. *wink* *wink*
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@white_bear@ayk - In regards to the question about the differences between the Anatolian and the Kanagal, I think the correct answer is "it depends upon who you ask"...
From what I understand (tho I am no expert), "The Anatolian Shepherd Dog" refers to a landrace of shepherd dogs that are from the area called "Anatolia". The name is used to refer to all of the LGD breeds that were native to that area (which included part of Turkey).
In the 70s the landrace knows as "The Anatolian Shepherd Dog" was divided by kennel clubs into the Akbash and the Anatolian Shepherd, and standards were developed for these breeds.
Meanwhile, in the Republic of Turkey, where they do not agree that the Anatolian and the Kangal are related, the Kangal standard was formed and the landrace was shaped into the current Kangal Dog.
The differences between the breeds became obvious enough to where it the kennel clubs needed to start recognizing the Kangal Dog and the Anatolian Shepherd as 2 distinct breeds, and so, now you have Anatolian and Kangals. The Kangal tends to be more robust in build than the Anatolian.
There are heated debates between the breed fanciers as to which came first and which is the realTurkish Shepherd Dog. The Anatolian fanciers usually argue that they are the same breed while the Kangal fanciers usually argue that this is not the case and that the Kangal dogs migrated with the Turkish people to the Republic of Turkey.
Its similar to the Ovcharka, and all the breeds that make up that landrace. The Central Asian Shepherd, for example, is know all over central asia by different names - in Afghanistan it is called the "Sage Kuchi", in Kazakhstan it is called the "Tobet", and Turkey it is called the "Alabai" (or "Turkmenian Sheepdog").
My point is, I think its safe to say there are a few distinct LGD landraces which have now been split up and given breed names by the various countries that make up their original geographic ancestry. The people from these different countries fight with each other over what the dogs are called and who really owns the breed - hell, when my YouTube vids were up I got constant comments from views that Luytiy was a Sarplaninac and not a Caucasian Ovcharka and vice-versa (sp?) ... or that Masha is an Armenian Gampr and not a CO. The dogs are all connected and from the same pool of aboriginal LGD.
Even the Tibetan Mastiff has this issue - people in India call them the Himalayan Sheepdog while the Chinese call them the Tibetan Mastiff - but if you went to Nepal or Tibet and asked a native they would call them Do-Khyi, Tsang-khyi, or Zang Ao.
It gets kinda old if you don't have any particular patriotism toward any of the countries that clam the breeds. \
Here is an example of what I was saying, in the video above (about LGD in Namibia) these dogs are called "Anatolian Sheepdogs" but then read on Wikipedia...
"In Namibia the dogs are being used to help protect livestock from cheetah attacks. Kangal shepherd dogs have been bred to stop cheetahs from taking livestock.[12] While depriving the cheetahs of occasional meals, the dogs have been doing them a good turn because, with the livestock left in peace, farmers have little reason to persecute the big cat."
So, there ya go. I wonder what the nationality of the person who wrote the Wiki article on the Kangal Dog is? hmmm...
I agree with Brad that it probably "depends on who you ask".
I love the breed, I've spent quite a bit searching about it, and I haven't seen that many differences to make them different breeds. For me, it's more like it's a very heterogeneous breed, which is very normal in breeds that are still working and are selected purely in relation to their abilities to perform the task. Here in Portugal, of all the 4 LGDs, only the Serra da Estrela is a fairly homogeneous breed, and only because it has started being selected for morphology quite a few years ago. If you look at the Cão de Gado Trasmontano, which was the last one to be recognized as a breed, even here in Portugal (it's still no recognized by the FCI) the breeds is very heterogeneous, as is the Rafeiro do Alentejo.
As far as I could see, teh only one I could possibly separate as a breed is the Akbash, but even so I probably would be calling it a "variety" first, like the short haired Serra da Estrela is a variety of the same breed as the long haired one, although they are judged separately in FCI shows (but so are Blak, blue, sable end brindle, and harlequin Great Danes, and they are all Great Danes)
Brad: actually that same exact thing happened when I was on the forums one day. I was looking at pictures of your CO and since my parents grew up in Armenia they look at the picture and say "oh, its a Gampr!" Whereas another time a family friend from Russia saw the pictures and called them Cavkaskaya Ovcharka, so I get what you mean by "depends on who you ask."
White_bear: I had done research on the Anatolian and the Kangal and from what I had read I had found that they were 2 different breeds. They do look very alike though...
Comments
Thanks for sharing, Shigeru!
Am I the only one that is just awe struck by working dogs doing what they've been bred to do? Man, it gets me really excited!
Well, I have this fantasy of moving more into the country than I already live and having more animals--maybe I can get an Anatolian when I have my little fantasy farm.
I love my CO, and I'm pretty committed to them at this points, but I think an Anatolian may have been a better choice for our needs here due to climate.
I knew Rui ( @Leonberger ) would post in this thread - he loves him some Anatolian Shepherds.
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Brad - I think I suggested that to you that at the time. (not just because i thought they might be good, but I wanted regular Anatolian spam, heheheh)
I just had an Anatolian encounter--was at the mailbox and heard an odd sound, and saw that one field over from the mailboxes were some alpacas (they make some odd noises!), so decided to take my pup on a walk over there to check them out....and not only were there alpacas and a couple of goats, but there were two anatolians on patrol (and the cutest collie puppy too!). Now I'm going to be all geeky and stalking my neighbor--I want to ask how well the Anatolians have been doing as LGDs....esp. with all the coyote problems we've been having here (and bears too apparently, though I haven't seen them myself). The dogs were not at all interested in me, but were very suspicious of Oskar, so I presume they're pretty good at their job....
I was reading a lot about these two last night, and it looks like it is now legal to take Kangals out of the country--there are some breeders in the US. I believe from my reading that they are two different breeds...at least that's what the breeders say (one said Kangals are slightly less barky than anatolians, for example).
But I'm certainly no expert--just infatuated with them and spent hours online reading last night
----
@white_bear @ayk - In regards to the question about the differences between the Anatolian and the Kanagal, I think the correct answer is "it depends upon who you ask"...
From what I understand (tho I am no expert), "The Anatolian Shepherd Dog" refers to a landrace of shepherd dogs that are from the area called "Anatolia". The name is used to refer to all of the LGD breeds that were native to that area (which included part of Turkey).
In the 70s the landrace knows as "The Anatolian Shepherd Dog" was divided by kennel clubs into the Akbash and the Anatolian Shepherd, and standards were developed for these breeds.
Meanwhile, in the Republic of Turkey, where they do not agree that the Anatolian and the Kangal are related, the Kangal standard was formed and the landrace was shaped into the current Kangal Dog.
The differences between the breeds became obvious enough to where it the kennel clubs needed to start recognizing the Kangal Dog and the Anatolian Shepherd as 2 distinct breeds, and so, now you have Anatolian and Kangals. The Kangal tends to be more robust in build than the Anatolian.
There are heated debates between the breed fanciers as to which came first and which is the realTurkish Shepherd Dog. The Anatolian fanciers usually argue that they are the same breed while the Kangal fanciers usually argue that this is not the case and that the Kangal dogs migrated with the Turkish people to the Republic of Turkey.
Its similar to the Ovcharka, and all the breeds that make up that landrace. The Central Asian Shepherd, for example, is know all over central asia by different names - in Afghanistan it is called the "Sage Kuchi", in Kazakhstan it is called the "Tobet", and Turkey it is called the "Alabai" (or "Turkmenian Sheepdog").
My point is, I think its safe to say there are a few distinct LGD landraces which have now been split up and given breed names by the various countries that make up their original geographic ancestry. The people from these different countries fight with each other over what the dogs are called and who really owns the breed - hell, when my YouTube vids were up I got constant comments from views that Luytiy was a Sarplaninac and not a Caucasian Ovcharka and vice-versa (sp?) ... or that Masha is an Armenian Gampr and not a CO. The dogs are all connected and from the same pool of aboriginal LGD.
Even the Tibetan Mastiff has this issue - people in India call them the Himalayan Sheepdog while the Chinese call them the Tibetan Mastiff - but if you went to Nepal or Tibet and asked a native they would call them Do-Khyi, Tsang-khyi, or Zang Ao.
It gets kinda old if you don't have any particular patriotism toward any of the countries that clam the breeds.
----
"In Namibia the dogs are being used to help protect livestock from cheetah attacks. Kangal shepherd dogs have been bred to stop cheetahs from taking livestock.[12] While depriving the cheetahs of occasional meals, the dogs have been doing them a good turn because, with the livestock left in peace, farmers have little reason to persecute the big cat."
So, there ya go. I wonder what the nationality of the person who wrote the Wiki article on the Kangal Dog is? hmmm...
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I love the breed, I've spent quite a bit searching about it, and I haven't seen that many differences to make them different breeds. For me, it's more like it's a very heterogeneous breed, which is very normal in breeds that are still working and are selected purely in relation to their abilities to perform the task. Here in Portugal, of all the 4 LGDs, only the Serra da Estrela is a fairly homogeneous breed, and only because it has started being selected for morphology quite a few years ago. If you look at the Cão de Gado Trasmontano, which was the last one to be recognized as a breed, even here in Portugal (it's still no recognized by the FCI) the breeds is very heterogeneous, as is the Rafeiro do Alentejo.
As far as I could see, teh only one I could possibly separate as a breed is the Akbash, but even so I probably would be calling it a "variety" first, like the short haired Serra da Estrela is a variety of the same breed as the long haired one, although they are judged separately in FCI shows (but so are Blak, blue, sable end brindle, and harlequin Great Danes, and they are all Great Danes)
White_bear: I had done research on the Anatolian and the Kangal and from what I had read I had found that they were 2 different breeds. They do look very alike though...