Does anyone have any plans to breed their Shikoku? I know the gene pool is very very tough in North America, but I was just curious if it is happening outside of Katja's Kennel.
Well, there is also Peggy's kennel, O'Ikon, you can get there using www.shikokudog.com. She has been breeding Shikoku for a while now (6-8 years or so?). My male is from her kennel and he is 3 y now, and she had mulitple litters before him.
I think a few other of us have plans to in the future (Corina, myself, possibly others). In my case, my female is just turning a year and had 1 heat. I hope to breed her on her 3rd heat (if all goes as planned). My male has had all his OFA testing and I plan to do the same with the female, but that might occur after her 1st breeding (since she might have her 3rd heat before she turns 2 years old).
I have been tossing the idea around of starting a kennel and a breeding program; with my family, and a close longtime friend; who is also a Shikoku fan. We are currently looking at suitable acreages a reasonable distance from town.
I am hoping to find out a bit more about the costs associated with purchasing differing lines from the current North American kennels, as well as importing dogs from Japan. I am guessing that to avoid breeding ones self into a corner, two or three males (or access to), along with three to five females; would be minimal requirements to get things properly started. Considering that new pups would need to hit the 2yr mark, and pass suitable tests prior to being determined as acceptable for breeding stock; my plan as it sits allows 3-5yr for initial setup, with a goal of being properly established within 10yrs. Obviously; if the imports are at, or closer to breeding age, and pass health tests, things could happen sooner. I want to make sure things are done right from the get go though; rather than rush into something, and be caught unprepared.
I also need to find out how expensive it is to register a kennel, as well as how much is involved with regard to initial puppy shots; micro chips, health checks / submissions (OFA), etc.
We have a relative that is half owner of the more modern vet clinic in town; so I can get a decent discount, or have a contract rate established on general care etc, once things are in place and I have some solid numbers for them.
After touring Akashima; and another kennel (Shiba) in Alberta, I have a decent idea of space requirements etc. I like the screening process already in place at the current Shikoku kennels. As there is a lot of hunting in the surrounding areas; I would also like some input from those who routinely hunt with Shikoku's, early training / habits to establish etc, suitability for small game etc.
Spending a fair bit of time in various dog parks and on local walking trails has also given me some great ideas on how to landscape a portion of 'the back forty'.
I know Brad has had to temporarily stop his Shikoku program; however, I am hoping to obtain some insight and knowledge from the forums, and determine if I can make a proper go of contributing to the future of this wonderful breed.
Sorry for the lengthy post; and the potential sidetrack/hi-jack of this thread.
Would your kennel be situated in Canada or the US? What part of the US?
In my neck of the woods in the US, there are several hoops to go through to have a commerical kennel license. You have to have to have the right zoning (and hope that nobody changes it on you or that the grandfather clause sticks for new animals as well as existing animals). You have to get a kennel permit, which is usually doled out by an animal control agency (and hope they're not hostile to 'greedy breeders'). And I think you also have to have facilities that meet USDA standards, such as dogs having to be kept on a bleachable surface (not the carpet in your house) and in a so-and-so sized enclosure. (Visualize a boarding kennel or animal shelter facility.) It's for the last reason that some people choose to stay catagorized as a hobby breeder and resist legislative attempts to lower the allowable number of dogs before being considered a commercial kennel.
North of my neck of the woods there are extraordinary fees or hinderances to rabies license an intact dog vs. an altered dog. One place charges $100/yr for an intact dog vs. $15/yr for an altered dog. Other places charge for an intact animal permit plus a breeding permit - annually. Still others have mandatory spay/neuter laws with exemptions that are very difficult to meet for rare breeds like the Shikoku.
So, pick your kennel location wisely, is what I want to say. There are ways to save on costs for the rest of the stuff:
-Imports and new dogs can be purchased via co-ops or co-ownerships. -Vaccinations for non-rabies and dewormings can be done at home by the breeder. -Microchipping can be inserted by the breeder as well though many are squemish because the needle to inject the chip is huge. For registering chips, it used to be that AVID would automatically register the buyer's name to the chip record so no need for the breeder to pay for registration. That may or may not be the case now, but it can be looked into. -OFA prelims can be skipped (wait til the dog is 2 yrs for official OFA).
I raise and breed Shiba Inus and have really enjoyed the experience and joys of the breed. I have been eye balling the Shikoku's for a couple years now; they are beautiful breed. We will be getting our first Shikoku this year. As Shibas and Shikoku's are very different from each other, the plan is to see how the new pup does in our family-pack and we would like to try a litter with her in about 2-3 years. If all goes well, we too would like to start raising a couple Shikoku's (after we move in 4 years). I wouldn't be looking for a big breeding program ... maybe import a female or two and have our own stud. Just something family based and small.
I plan on breeding shikoku someday, but first I have to get more dogs (the shikoku I have now was spayed when I got her) and there are no immediate plans for that, so don't hold your breath.
People import from time to time, so co-ownership is a possibility. I'm not going to speak on anyone's behalf, obviously, but it's happened.
I am located in Fort St. John, BC, Canada; approximately 12-14hrs drive north of the US border. With the ferry ride; it is 15-18hrs travel to Akashima on Vancouver Island. It tends to get quite cold here over the winter; though this year has been surprisingly mild, regardless, I will likely need heated outbuildings for the animals. On the plus side; there are a few acreages that meet my requirements, and some others that could work, with a little more time and effort.
ayk - I will make sure we put extra thought into our location. Once one leaves the municipality and gets into the country proper, I am not sure how much regulatory control there is. I have read the CKC guidelines and ethics, and most of what they suggest or require is pretty much common sense. The canadian kennels I have toured are generally the same basic design; with 6' x 12' enclosures per animal seeming to be the minimum, with some having runs of 20'+. They also have larger community pens for playtime, and possibly breeding. Rabies vaccinations are not a requirement here, though they do charge more for a license on an intact animal. I wasn't aware that vaccinations and microchips could be done at home; I will have to look into the associated costs, as that would certainly save time and money in the long run. Thanks to the climate; we do not have the same issues with various worms / diseases that plague some warmer communities, though one can never be too cautious with new pups.
JennAB - The Shiba kennel I visited was excellent; the attitudes displayed amongst the various animals were quite varied. I had originally thought it might be nice to raise a half dozen Shikoku for a family acreage and carry on; but after spending time with several Shikokus, and recognizing how few of the breed there are, and the limited the access to this wonderful animal outside of Japan, I decided to look at starting an actual kennel over the next few years. To date; one of the local vets is the only person that recognized the breed name.
I currently have 4 Shikoku for my breeding program at the moment: 2 males & 2 females. I'm expecting some more Shikoku imports later this year as well.
Kotomi will be bred to Shoushuu this year whenever it is that she should come into heat again (will be her 4th cycle). And I'm keeping a puppy from that litter (1 female). My dogs are split up between myself & co-ownership homes...so I'm able to keep more dogs this way =].
Yep, I'm in Alberta. Is that the AB in JennAB? I'm open to it. I don't have any direct contacts with breeders in Japan, though, so I'm more in a position where I would co-own with someone who's already established, since at least one of the co-owners need to have their foot in the door, so to speak.
Comments
I think a few other of us have plans to in the future (Corina, myself, possibly others). In my case, my female is just turning a year and had 1 heat. I hope to breed her on her 3rd heat (if all goes as planned). My male has had all his OFA testing and I plan to do the same with the female, but that might occur after her 1st breeding (since she might have her 3rd heat before she turns 2 years old).
I am hoping to find out a bit more about the costs associated with purchasing differing lines from the current North American kennels, as well as importing dogs from Japan. I am guessing that to avoid breeding ones self into a corner, two or three males (or access to), along with three to five females; would be minimal requirements to get things properly started. Considering that new pups would need to hit the 2yr mark, and pass suitable tests prior to being determined as acceptable for breeding stock; my plan as it sits allows 3-5yr for initial setup, with a goal of being properly established within 10yrs. Obviously; if the imports are at, or closer to breeding age, and pass health tests, things could happen sooner. I want to make sure things are done right from the get go though; rather than rush into something, and be caught unprepared.
I also need to find out how expensive it is to register a kennel, as well as how much is involved with regard to initial puppy shots; micro chips, health checks / submissions (OFA), etc.
We have a relative that is half owner of the more modern vet clinic in town; so I can get a decent discount, or have a contract rate established on general care etc, once things are in place and I have some solid numbers for them.
After touring Akashima; and another kennel (Shiba) in Alberta, I have a decent idea of space requirements etc. I like the screening process already in place at the current Shikoku kennels. As there is a lot of hunting in the surrounding areas; I would also like some input from those who routinely hunt with Shikoku's, early training / habits to establish etc, suitability for small game etc.
Spending a fair bit of time in various dog parks and on local walking trails has also given me some great ideas on how to landscape a portion of 'the back forty'.
I know Brad has had to temporarily stop his Shikoku program; however, I am hoping to obtain some insight and knowledge from the forums, and determine if I can make a proper go of contributing to the future of this wonderful breed.
Sorry for the lengthy post; and the potential sidetrack/hi-jack of this thread.
In my neck of the woods in the US, there are several hoops to go through to have a commerical kennel license. You have to have to have the right zoning (and hope that nobody changes it on you or that the grandfather clause sticks for new animals as well as existing animals). You have to get a kennel permit, which is usually doled out by an animal control agency (and hope they're not hostile to 'greedy breeders'). And I think you also have to have facilities that meet USDA standards, such as dogs having to be kept on a bleachable surface (not the carpet in your house) and in a so-and-so sized enclosure. (Visualize a boarding kennel or animal shelter facility.) It's for the last reason that some people choose to stay catagorized as a hobby breeder and resist legislative attempts to lower the allowable number of dogs before being considered a commercial kennel.
North of my neck of the woods there are extraordinary fees or hinderances to rabies license an intact dog vs. an altered dog. One place charges $100/yr for an intact dog vs. $15/yr for an altered dog. Other places charge for an intact animal permit plus a breeding permit - annually. Still others have mandatory spay/neuter laws with exemptions that are very difficult to meet for rare breeds like the Shikoku.
So, pick your kennel location wisely, is what I want to say. There are ways to save on costs for the rest of the stuff:
-Imports and new dogs can be purchased via co-ops or co-ownerships.
-Vaccinations for non-rabies and dewormings can be done at home by the breeder.
-Microchipping can be inserted by the breeder as well though many are squemish because the needle to inject the chip is huge. For registering chips, it used to be that AVID would automatically register the buyer's name to the chip record so no need for the breeder to pay for registration. That may or may not be the case now, but it can be looked into.
-OFA prelims can be skipped (wait til the dog is 2 yrs for official OFA).
Where are you located cmpteki ?
People import from time to time, so co-ownership is a possibility. I'm not going to speak on anyone's behalf, obviously, but it's happened.
I am located in Fort St. John, BC, Canada; approximately 12-14hrs drive north of the US border. With the ferry ride; it is 15-18hrs travel to Akashima on Vancouver Island. It tends to get quite cold here over the winter; though this year has been surprisingly mild, regardless, I will likely need heated outbuildings for the animals. On the plus side; there are a few acreages that meet my requirements, and some others that could work, with a little more time and effort.
ayk - I will make sure we put extra thought into our location. Once one leaves the municipality and gets into the country proper, I am not sure how much regulatory control there is. I have read the CKC guidelines and ethics, and most of what they suggest or require is pretty much common sense. The canadian kennels I have toured are generally the same basic design; with 6' x 12' enclosures per animal seeming to be the minimum, with some having runs of 20'+. They also have larger community pens for playtime, and possibly breeding. Rabies vaccinations are not a requirement here, though they do charge more for a license on an intact animal. I wasn't aware that vaccinations and microchips could be done at home; I will have to look into the associated costs, as that would certainly save time and money in the long run. Thanks to the climate; we do not have the same issues with various worms / diseases that plague some warmer communities, though one can never be too cautious with new pups.
JennAB - The Shiba kennel I visited was excellent; the attitudes displayed amongst the various animals were quite varied. I had originally thought it might be nice to raise a half dozen Shikoku for a family acreage and carry on; but after spending time with several Shikokus, and recognizing how few of the breed there are, and the limited the access to this wonderful animal outside of Japan, I decided to look at starting an actual kennel over the next few years. To date; one of the local vets is the only person that recognized the breed name.
Kotomi will be bred to Shoushuu this year whenever it is that she should come into heat again (will be her 4th cycle). And I'm keeping a puppy from that litter (1 female). My dogs are split up between myself & co-ownership homes...so I'm able to keep more dogs this way =].