Thoughts on this type of activity?
I can't believe this is legal in my state.. Yeah I'm against it.
I'm fine with controlling predators if need be, but this seems too much to me especially with fox there's not many fox in the wild here in my opinion they get controlled by cars I see a lot of them get run over..
http://www.nuvo.net/indianapolis/coyote-ugly-indiana-dnr-reverses-its-position-on-wildlife-penning/Content?oid=1859690
I'm not against hunters, but this seems too much too me how is this training? I'd rather have a hunter call the coyote/fox with mouse or rabbit distress call or howlers and then shoot them for a quick kill..
I'm still in process of reading it all, but thought I'd post to see people's opinion on this.
I raise veggies it's just a small garden, but if it wasn't for coyotes we'd have too many rabbits and my garden would have to be fenced in etc..
I'm fine with controlling predators if need be, but this seems too much to me especially with fox there's not many fox in the wild here in my opinion they get controlled by cars I see a lot of them get run over..
http://www.nuvo.net/indianapolis/coyote-ugly-indiana-dnr-reverses-its-position-on-wildlife-penning/Content?oid=1859690
I'm not against hunters, but this seems too much too me how is this training? I'd rather have a hunter call the coyote/fox with mouse or rabbit distress call or howlers and then shoot them for a quick kill..
I'm still in process of reading it all, but thought I'd post to see people's opinion on this.
I raise veggies it's just a small garden, but if it wasn't for coyotes we'd have too many rabbits and my garden would have to be fenced in etc..
Comments
I like fox and coyotes l would get me a LGD if I had live stock to be protected by them..
The set up kinda sounds like the hog penning training thing, but still I much rather using a trap or luring them in and shooting them a fight between a coyote and a dog can be dangerous..
Coarse same thing can be said about a dog going for a boar that's dangerous, but to me boar = prey and seems more natural for me to think about when dogs are used to hunt boar..
I'm no PETA supporter I love meat just like any American and I'm fascinated about dogs being used to hunt, but this I dunno..
Second, I'm not against hunting coyotes, but I think they should be humanely killed. I don't think allowing a dog or worse, a pack of dogs, to tear one up is humane. Supposedly that wouldn't happen in the pen, but I'm afraid I'm not convinced that all people involved in this would actually make sure that wouldn't happen. I've seen a couple pretty awful videos on U-Tube of people hunting coyote with dogs, and they just let the dogs rip the coyote to pieces. I think that's awful, and inhumane, and I don't think it should be legal--I consider it pretty damn close to dog fighting. (Some of those idiots who put up videos were very casual about how badly their dogs got hurt too--so obvioulsy they don't care).
It may be that this particular place they're talking about with the pen is not run by or patronized by idiots. Maybe they do things right and the coyotes and foxes are not killed by the dogs. But even if that is the case, I don't think the state should be in the business of supplying wildlife to a private group. And I think is just too much room for abuse.....I don't believe for a moment that they actually supply vet care for injured wildlife....
I don't have a problem with hunting coyotes. I'm a little more hesitant about foxes...there are less of them, and they don't really cause the kind of problems coyotes can, but ok, even that I can go with, if the population is stable, even I wouldn't do it myself. I can even see tracking them with dogs, though that starts to make me a little nervous (are the hunters going to be able to stop their dogs from just attacking the animal?) But I think purposely letting dogs kill a coyote or a fox is pretty disgusting. It also violates my idea about what hunting should be about--which is the hunt, and then USING the animal afterward, whether that is for meat or for fur. A torn to pieces coyote or fox is not going to yield a good pelt either.
I'd rather the coyote be shot and die quickly plus if the coyote were to attack the dog out of defense it'd be bad for the dog..
I'm not fond of the fox they don't seem to cause much trouble coarse I'm no farmer with rabbits and chickens.
Second is I feel the content is some what one sided and I think the editor shuld go and get the side of the training fascility. As every one knows my self and others here hunt..a lot. I love hunting with dogs regardless of the game I'm chasing. I have seen first hand coarsing dogs that hunt coyotes and I must say its not my cup of tea but it is a form of hunting that has taken place for thousands of years.
Yes we live in a modern world that supplies man with fod by going to the store. But for many people around the world, hunting is a tradition, life style, and for many a way to still get food. Some will see the use of dogs to hunt game as sadistic and psychotic but for people like me its our lively hood to hunt with our beloved dogs. Its what makes them the most happiest, its what they live to do.
I am also 100% against coarsing/baying/treeing competitions that includes gambling and compete for "trophies". I feel that when man competes for things many times unethical actions take place (abuse, cheating, etc.). But one thing that I am for is getting groups of people together with the same interest and sharing tactics and experience.
Now for a little fact. First, when training game dogs wether its birds, hogs, bears, or coyote requires the use of some sort of live "bait". It is nearly impossible to just put a dog out in the woods and hope for he best. For me, in order to start my dogs I have to put them in a pen to teach them how to bay at hogs safely. Just like Ty needs to have live birds purchased for him to start him as a bird dog.
So why do we need dogs to hunt, some may wonder. The answer is there is no other consistant way to hunt for game than to use a well trained dog. I my self hunt coyotes, bobcats, and gray fox by using calls (some times the dogs will tree a babcat) and I can tell you that its not easy at all. Its about a 20 to 40 % success rate. With that kind of rate, the predators mentioned above have a higher chance to populate a area, saturating a area and reducing the numbers of other wildlife.
But even with trying to do my part in conservation, I do have to say that hunting with dogs is one of the most gratifyin and enjoyable things I do. I'm not sadistic or psycho (I hope not), I dont enjoy seeing animals in pain or torturing animals, I just love hunting with my dogs and I do my best every time to dispatch game as fast as possible.
Ok so now I need to get this off my chest. I see that peta loves to put their foot into every kind of hunting issues around the nation. I despise peta because of their hypocritical views and agenda. I think peta should check out the killing they do through their own shelters and the funding of domestic terrorists. Sorry but I have a hard time understanding how they are able to argue their point with that kind of background.
Second, the HSUS will argue against any type of hunting regardless of what animal is involved. HSUS has funded many anti hunting/fishing organizations around the country. These organizations funded by HSUS have commited crimes such as theft of hunting dogs, vandalizaton of hunters vehicles, poisoning hunting dogs, and assaultng hunters and fisherman/women. Like I said earlier the article is one sided and does not contain hard facts like photos, videos, and interviews. I'm not discreditingthe article but feel its extremely one sided.
I thought about working dogs on boars too...(and understand I'm just talking about my own rather limited knowledge of this, and my own personal feelings here) and I was a bit uneasy at times, thinking I'd rather not have an animal penned and terrorized, but then again, how else are the dogs going to learn, and also it looks, from what I can see, that it's not like the pigs are being torn apart by dogs by any means, but the dogs are being trained. And frankly, it doesn't look like the boars are terrorized. They look more pissed off! So in the end, I thought, ok, this looks reasonable to me.
And hey, I eat meat. I'm sure I would very much enjoy eating one of those wild pigs!
But the pig situation seems different to me than coyotes or foxes. I may be wrong about that. But I can't quite stomach the idea of these animals being torn apart (which is why I have problems with the coursing, regardless of how long it's been practiced). I don't have any problems with people hunting/trapping coyotes and foxes...But I don't like the idea of dogs tearing up these animals...Probably part of my thing is, honestly, just a sympathy for another canid, too.
And PETA...well, I won't get started on that. They seriously piss me off. For an "animal rights" group, they seem to have very little interest or understanding of animals at all.
I've got no problem with local Humane Societies as long as they aren't run by morons.
And on the hunting part, if the critter being hunted isn't dispatched as quickly as possible and is allowed to be torn apart, it isn't hunting to me. I understand that some animals are used for training dogs but as long as they aren't tortured I'm okay with it.
Edit: I reworded my comment somewhat since it was pretty harsh initially.
With pig dog training, there are times where the dog catches the hog but most of the time its broken up fast. Taro has bitten and caught the pigs I had but pig skin is really thick and it didn't do too much other then a scratch. And most of the time its usually no more then 15 minutes (for me) that the dogs will be baying the hog. The hogs are almost always pissed off and guard them salves really well.
I dont mind any dialog that is against my thoughts and beliefe, I'm just going off of what I only know. I'm sure there are others who may have more better info then what I have.
I know this is totally side tracking, but most of you know that I am a vegetarian and am very much an animal rights activist. That being said, while I would never participate and do not necessarily condone it, I am okay with hunting IF it is done humanely and the animals are used for food, shelter, etc. My reasoning behind it is this - If you are going to be a meat eater, I definitely find it much better to hunt an animal that has led a free life and has a chance of fighting back/running away/hiding than raising animals in factory farm settings where the animal has never been free and has no chance of survival.
Now, back to the article. There is really not enough information in the article for me to either agree or disagree. It definitely sounds very one sided and not completely truthful. I am not sure that capturing wild animals for training is the best approach, but then again, I really know next to nothing about hunting. I think I like Gen's method of getting piglets and raising them (properly, that is) versus capturing wild pigs and containing them for the training.
Heck it's in my state once I get my driver's license I might drive over to watch and see what's it's about.
I'm not into that type of thing, but it'd be neat to ask questions and see their side of the story and stuff.
HSUS and PETA are two things I don't agree with they're horrible for vandalizing and stealing people's pets. One PETA member tried to steal a pet dog from someone on a forum I go to. >.<
Sorry they ruined your friend's truck that is horrible.
Good to hear your side on it who knows this set up might be better then the other ones the article said it's 300acres I think enough room for the animal to escape and run. I just hope they feed the fox and coyotes so they're not hunting weakened animals..
I'd love to train a dog to retrieve birds one day or maybe try boar hunting coarse I don't think boars are in Indiana.. There is pheasants or quail in my field..
Saya's great with playing fetch with any toy so I'm thinking of getting some things to work with her on coarse for fun.
I think she'd love it if I put quail or pheasant scent on a dummy and taught her to track and retrieve it. She loves using her nose.
My brother in Louisiana went boar hunting with no dogs forgot if he found any though.
His wife's family hunts a lot their freezer is filled with deer, and game birds they got trained labs for hunting too. They do the best fish fry and their hush puppies were yummy.. They even have their own crayfish pond.
I still say that government shouldn't be in the business of selling game for profit. I say it should be legal for hunters to trap their own training "bait". I seriously would rather trap a hog for training instead of having to fork out hundreds of dollars but in ca, its illegal to trap hogs without a depredation permit.
I hunt for meat for the table, and to feed my dogs. I hunt to let my dogs do what they naturally should do, get them exercise, get me exercise. It's a healthy activity for us, gives us great organic meat, helps keep crop damage in check, and it's a sustainable harvest. The game we hunt live a natural life in freedom, and even if my dogs and I find them, the chances that they get away if they're fast/smart is pretty good.
I try to dispatch game as quickly as possible, and minimize risk to myself and my dogs. I don't hunt predators because I'm not interested in eating them. Of course if I was somewhere where they needed to be culled, I might think about it (Brown Bear in Hokkaido for instance, and well they're supposed to be good eating). I don't know if I'd use my dogs on other canines. It seems it might be a bit dangerous for my dogs, and I'm not a fan of the running a pack of dogs that are taking down their own game (self hunting). The hunter has very little control over the dogs, and that would be worrisome for me.
If I was going to hunt Coyote, I'd probably go and see some of these training areas, and go on a hunt as well to see what it's like and draw my conclusions based on that.
Like Gen said, you can't take your pups to the mountains and magically expect them to hunt what you want. There is some instinct there, but it needs to be directed properly. The fastest way to do that is to train your dog on the game in a controlled environment. I guess the main thing for me is about how it's being done, and I'm definitely not a fan of running finished dogs on penned animals purely for human ego/pleasure. The animals we eat are living creatures, and the older hunters who've taught me the ropes are very respectful of that fact. Pretty much every part of the animal is eaten by them or their dogs, and they hate waste. They go to the temple every year to thank the mountain gods for bounty they provided, and pray that the animals who's lives we took rest in peace. I'm not a religious person, but I have great respect for their respect for living things. Sounds corny but I do mimic them and thank the animal for its life after it takes its last breath.
I'm OK with training with live animals it has to be done, but yeah if it's used as a competition to win trophies I'm not for that.
My dad wants to hunt one deer with a bow for next year's deer season which will be great for Saya and Bella the two will love the parts we don't like to eat.. Saya already have gotten some free deer meat from a hunter because it was too freezer burned.
Maybe this summer or next I can head down to it to see what it's about and post pictures or video of it.
I do love how dogs who are breed to hunt get to do what they love. When they go for a boar or retrieve a bird it must be so nice to the dog to please his/her master and do something they like to do to.
I'm going down to Louisiana for my brother's graduation I might see if my sister in law's family have any freezer burned meat I can take home for the dogs Saya and Bella loves deer meat plus I much prefer feeding deer or animals who were fed grass, insects, or their normal diet etc.
They do taste much better and feels nice since they've had a good life compared to feed lot cows, chickens, or pigs..
He found that areas where hogs feed were shown to produce better Oak production and growth. It was found that when the hogs root, they end up burrying acorns deeper in the ground and helps with the Oak growth. In places like where I live where its pretty dry most of the time, the acorns cant make it in the ground really easy. The acorn end up rotting on the ground surface.
so while many biologists cry over the destruction, this perticuler biologist is hoping the San Diego population takes hold since we have a ever dying Oak woodland. But the crop damages caused by these animals is costing many states millions of dollars.