To what degree does your kai guard resources?

Brego_mellon_nin

Hi all kai peeps!

To what degree does you kai guard resources? Food, toys, etc.?

I have been surprised by the tenacious guarding Eowyn performs. Mostly with her food, but also to a certain degree with her sleeping spots or her crate.

MirkaM

Ife guards her food and bones sometimes but she only growls couple of seconds and then gives up. Food aggression was a huge problem with her the first couple of weeks when she came to me. Now she can eat from the same bowl as Nuuk or my mum's Schipperkes. But she is very specific whom she allows to her OWN area which is my beneath my bed. And sometimes at my parent's house she thinks she owns the whole room. But she stops it when I just look at her. And she does this only to other dogs. It took two weeks before she allowed Nuuk to sleep with her under the bed.
Yet I haven't saw any signs of guarding in Nuuk. Not even with food. But I think it will come up down the line. Oh, Ife has started guard Nuuk on the walks from the other dogs. And she also wants to guard me sometimes from Nuuk or other dogs (usually from my mums Schipperkes).

BradA1878

Guarding resources from dogs - All of our Kai will guard their resources, some more aggressively than others. With some of them it's a look and a growl, with others it's a growl and a display.

Unlike our Shikoku tho, our Kai have never fought over a resource.

I would say dog-dog resource guarding is a pretty typical trait in Kai Ken. I observed the same thing in Japan too.

Guarding resources from people - None of our dogs, Kai Ken included (obviously), guard resources from us (humans).

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BradA1878

Tyson was by far the worst resource guarding Kai we've seen. He was outright mean about it.

@dlroberts - Dave, has he improved with age at all?

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dlroberts

lol. Funny you should ask that Brad, because after a few weeks with me he has pretty much stopped guarding resources completely. When I first took him from your house, he would guard my truck from anybody that got close to it. It was pretty hectic and I got quite a few nasty looks from people as they passed us. From there, he started guarding me from the other dogs. That behavior is his only guarding that continues, but it is now only directed at strange dogs. I've actually never seen him guard food, a toy, or space. In fact, if Lucy or Joey want a toy he has, they just walk up and take it, and he barely puts any effort into stopping them.

So, yes, Tyson has gotten a LOT better with age. :-)

BradA1878

Well, that's good. I'm sure our environment, with all the free-rang dogs, kinda intensifies those types of behaviors. More dogs = more competition for resources.

Also, we don't correct dogs for guarding resources, not so much because we want them to do it, but more because we would never be able to do anything if we felt the need to correct ever dog for ever incident of resource guarding. That would be a full-time job!

@dlroberts - Did you correct him for it (like time-outs or something), or did you just ignore it?

It's interesting how much environment plays a role in a dog's behavior.

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tjbart17

I think I'm kind've lucky on this.

Koda has not been traditionally a resource guarder. From the begining I could have him with my friend's pug and my other friend's shiba and they would all rotate and share treats, ie bones, bullysticks. He was great. A couple of months ago, he did start growling at other dogs if they got close to his treats. He's finally becoming a man. Now if he could only stick up to Mei a little bit more. He does not guard from humans at all. The only resource he tends to guard is me from other dogs, but he mainly just body blocks them out or pushes them away with his butt.

Little Miss Mei came to me as a resource guarder, but she is much much better now. She will growl at anyone she doesn't see as family going towards her face when she's eating. She growled at me once. This didn't work out well for her. She would growl, maybe this would escalate into something more, with another dog. I just don't let her get treats or eat in front of any dog but Koda. Her and Koda do great together BTW. They can eat out of the same bowl.

Mei guards my father from Koda. She will guard me from Koda when it's just us, but his size difference usually allows him to push right in. She can be a real ass though. She is very needy of human attention, and Koda's a momma's boy.

Brego_mellon_nin

Thanks for your replies, seems it's much like I thought...

And I meant guarding towards other dogs (wasn't specific enough in my initial post, I know, it slipped), but it's always good to know that they don't guard against people, normally

sjp051993

Tora will only guard her chew items from the other dogs. She only does it with other dogs and never humans. You can stick your entire hand in her mouth to get a treat out of her mouth and she will spit the treat and your hand out.

baanton

Josephine is very limited in her guarding... ocassionally she has "guarded" the farmhouse up north, but who can blame her.. that's a special place! Most of the time we have seen her guarding has been with the intent of enticing a game of "keep-away" so another dog will chase her to try to catch a coveted stick, or bone, or something similar. Ocassionally she has "guarded" food or bones from our son's dog, Frannie, but that is only after putting up with a "teenaged" dog for 4-5 days, and then she seems to start thinking ... "I have had enough of this!!!"... Also, a few times when there have been an insane number of dogs around in the dog park, she may guard me or my husband from being too affectionate with another dog. No, I would say our Kai is not a heavy - duty resource guarder.

brittk

I have not seen Kaiya guard at all, from us or any other dog. We have one doggy friend who will guard chew things (bully sticks, bones etc) so those are never down when he is around, but she and her Rhodesian friend share everything and do it well.

dlroberts

@brada1878 - I never corrected him for guarding an object. In fact, initially I reinforced him for guarding my truck. I have no idea if I was right or wrong, buy I had convinced myself that encouraging his defensive drive was going to be good if he was to be a boar dog. And, if you recall, my initial plans for him were to train him as a boar dog. The first few times he guarded my truck, he was either leashed to the bed or standing on the tailgate, so I would let him bark for a few minutes and then I slowly walked in and pet him while he continued to guard. After a few weeks, I realized my limitations as a hunter/hunting dog trainer and decided to try to train him on upland birds. So I stopped reinforcing him guarding my truck. If he did, I'd say in a calm voice "Thanks bud, that's enough." After another few weeks, he stopped guarding my truck.

As for guarding me from other dogs, I've corrected him for that in the past because he goes beyond body blocking and will actually nip other dogs on the rump to get their attention off of me. I worry that 1) other owners may not be particularly friendly toward him if he does that; and 2) one day he may nip the wrong dog and get into a serious fight. Interestingly, he has continued to guard me from other dogs, but has stopped the rump-nipping tactic.

tjbart17

@dlroberts Koda nips my butt. He thinks it's hilarious.

dlroberts

@tjbart17 - Tyson nips my butt too! I don't think its hilarious, I think it hurts. lol.

tjbart17

@dlroberts Koda may have a softer mouth. I barely feel it.

WrylyBrindle

...or you have different butts

Brego_mellon_nin

BWAHAHAHA! Butt nippers!! xD Well, you never get bored with a kai, eh??

brittk

I am feeling a need to revive this thread to get some advice. In the last two weeks, my little girl who has never so much barked at a dog or thought twice about sharing anything has started guarding food/treat items. The first display, we were out for a walk and saw two of our neighbors each with a dog. I had treats in my pocket, as usual, and one of the dogs started sniffing my pocket. Kaiya started growling and barking up a storm. We left and went home. The next time was a day or two later at the local pet boutique. We were getting food and a couple of Bullysticks to hold us over until our bulk order arrived and she started guarding the bullysticks I had in my hand from another dog that we walked in with.

Do any of you have any suggestions as to why she may be doing this and how to stop it? Part of me is thinking that she may have learned this at daycare which she returned to in August, but they are not fed anything there...

Any advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

dlroberts

Generally, when there is some sudden behavioral change like you describe, there is some underlying cause. Sometimes it's a change of circumstance like starting daycare, bringing a new pet into the home, a family member passing, etc. Sometimes it's a medical issue. Dogs tend to have an increased predisposition to guarding when they aren't feeling good. A physical injury or an illness can be the cause.

I agree that you want to try to curb that behavior before it becomes an issue, but it's worth spending some time thinking about what may have changed in her life that would cause her behavior to change. Can you think of anything?

brittk

The only things other than day care that I can come up with is that her legs are bothering her again. We were given the all clear by the Ortho. back in August to resume regular activity and we have, but we still put her braces on when we know she will be off leash or playing a lot with other dogs as she likes to stand on her hind legs a lot in play. She hasn't been acting like they are bothering her (not picking them up to keep weight off etc). She was doing a 3 legged hop when they were hurting before.

The other thing is that she has vomited a couple of times in the last few weeks. Once about 2 hours after eating, she was playing and running around the house and just stopped, vomited and kept on going. The other was in the middle of the night on Sunday and she was kind of lethargic on Monday. I attributed it to a new bone we had given (beef rib) but maybe it was something else.

Thanks @dlroberts. I tend to forget that she cant verbalize when she doesnt feel well and that things like this are supposed to be indicators to me. Maybe a trip to the vet is in order.

tjbart17

@brittk How old is Kaiya now? Yes all of the reasons above that Dave mentioned can change a dog's behavior. But I also think that dogs go through phases or grow up to be different dogs than they were when they were pups.

She may be in pain. Is she on any meds? Supplements? Could she be having the early onset of arthritis. I have a whole lot of information on supplements from Koda's holistic vet if you need any info. I truly feel that they have helped him manage pain. I'm really impressed. We don't use any NSAID's for pain anymore. We do still go to acupuncture once every 2 weeks.

Mei is a resource guarder. I've been able to manage it, but that doesn't mean that it isn't inside of her to guard treats, toys, food, etc. When she came she was really bad. It was intense. I thought she was going to kill my friend's Shiba. I have certain rules when I'm out with Mei around other dogs with food/treats in my hand.

I manage her behavior in stores by carrying my own shopping bag. One that she can not see through. When I pick up treats, I put them in the bag. To Mei, she knows she won't get that treat right away. She also gets that it's protected from other dogs, so other dogs coming up to us is not a threat. If I had a treat in my hand and another dog came up to us, she would most definitely give them a piece of her mind and tell them to back the f up. She's gangster like that. ha ha.

brittk

Kaiya turned one in August. She is not on any pain meds and her only supplement at the moment is Fish Oil. She is of course on heart worm preventative (Interceptor) and Frontline. I really need to get her on Glucosamine. What do you use to help Koda?

The thing that scared me was that it happened twice so close together and was so out of character. I should do the shopping bag for treats. We are going to try to go out and about at a festival this weekend, so we will see how she does. I dont want to set her up for failure. She has not displayed any of this behavior when my SO is around, maybe it has something to do with me too.

I just hope to get to the bottom of it soon!

tjbart17

One year of age can also bring changes in personality. I would be more worried if she was 4 or 5 and changing all of a sudden. Kaiya is still becoming a woman.

Are you ready for Koda's supplement list? It's kind've long.
Ligaplex (for ligaments, tendons, cartilage, and joint health)- ita has Vitamin E, B12, Calcium, Manganese, Vitamins A & C
Multi-Vitamin
Cosequin DS
Liquid Glucosamine/Chondroitin with MSM
and Fish Oil.

He gets liquid Yucca in his water when there's inflammation. I also use Traumeel and Zeel for inflammation and pain.

I really think Glucosamine does wonders.

brittk

Oh my goodness, how do you remember all of those! I am definitely going to get Glucosamine this weekend. Ligaplex sounds like something we should have in our lives as well. Im surprised that no one has recommended that to us before. We were recommeneded something with MSM when she first had her injury, so we will look into that.

I am going to take her for a second opinion and diagnosis on her hocks as soon as I can get another recommendation for an orthopedist.

Thanks, Tara!