Speaking of "the list" ...

curlytails

There are a few high profile pet bloggers who are talking around the same cluster of issues after the recent Purebred Paradox conference. This was on Fully Vetted. Thought some folks might be interested in taking a look (incl. comments), since it's in the ether at the moment...

http://www.petmd.com/blogs/fullyvetted/2011/may/top_ten_questions_for_purebred_breeders#comments

BradA1878

@curlytails - Curious why you posted this in "Off Topic"? Mind if I move it?

----

BradA1878

This item (num 5) makes zero sense to me...

--

5. Do you compete?

Again, not all wonderful breeders will, but the ones that do can give you great insight into how they care for the animals in their care. It’s a definite plus.

--

And I don't want to get into a discussion about whether a breeder should compete in something or not, that's not my point, and that conversation has been beaten to death on this forum...

What I don't understand about it is how a kennel's preference for competing with their breeding stock shows "how they care for the animals in their care". I mean, I'm sure someone could really stretch and connect those dots, but that statement is pretty disjointed if you ask me. I seen plenty of kennels that produce top winning show dogs and been outright appalled by how they keep their breeding stock.

I would totally buy (and agree with) this tho...

--

5. Do you compete?

Again, not all wonderful breeders will, but the ones that do can give you great insight into the confirmation or workability of the breed, it's standard, and it's overall health. It’s a definite plus.

--

Otherwise the rest of the list is pretty good IMHO.

----

BradA1878

BTW, @curlytails take a look at the comments (the first one) and then tell me you think rescuers and breeders are more often friends than foes. :oT

I'm not picking on you, just pointing out what I was talking about in the other thread.

----

curlytails

@brada1878, I noticed that was the first comment, and was a bit disappointed. I'm really uncomfortable with the fallacy that one puppy purchased = one killed in the shelter, myself, and some of the other commenters break it down very nicely. All I can say is that the rebuttals to this person have more "likes" than the original comment, FWIW.

Feel free to move this to wherever it would fit the best. I was thinking "off topic" because the other thread strayed so far from the thread's original topic... though this is a new one.

lindsayt

That question didn't make sense to me either. That's a pretty big stretch.

That particular mindset among the "anti anything purebred" and "all breeders are puppy mills" folks in rescue is not going to get them or the cause very far.

Heidi

It seems like a good list. It will get people thinking, if nothing else. Usually, when people ask questions it's because they assume there won't be a problem, not because they don't care. At least, that's my experience. People don't want dogs with health and temperament problems.

As for breeding = more dead dogs, I disagree. Good breeding practices are part of the solution.

shibamistress

The comments were getting pretty far afield, and pretty ridiculous, really. But I don't think that is necessarily true of breed specific rescue, which often includes breeders. It seems more to me that the real hostility in rescue vs. breeders comes with the animal rights people, who I don't believe show up so much in breed specific rescue.

Otherwise, the list seemed pretty good. I do like Brad's answer to question 5 much better, and agree that competition does not equal good care for a dog. For example, I was just at a dog show, and was petting a very timid female Akita. the handler was so pleased the dog had approached me and wanted to be petted, because she said the person they had gotten her from had beat her, so she was super shy, and they'd worked very hard to get her to be less afraid. Anyway, it was a clear example of how there are jerks everywhere.

Heidi

When we were looking for houses, I remember coming up to one place that had this dirty, frustrated GSD tied up on a short chain. He was pacing obsessively and really just looked awful. Then I went inside the house, and they had pictures of this dog winning his conformation championship! It hardly looked like the same dog. In fact, I even asked if it was the same dog, and they said it was, and mentioned that they wanted to breed him. Sheesh.

shishiinu

I also agree that competition has nothing to do with how well a dog is cared for. Personaly I'm sick and tired of always hearing this "one breeder pup equals a million shelter dogs dead". Its BS since the statistic mostly comes from anti breeding, anti purebred group rhetoric. Unfortunately these groups have backing from many legislators due to the fiendship payments that are made by the anti's. Sad but I could see anti breeding laws becoming written in stone laws in our near future. I know many will hate this comment but HSUS is one of the largest anti breeding groups and they are doing all they can to make it harder for good folks like Brad, Peggy, and Katja to preserve the NK's we love so much.

Sorry about my rant...

shibamistress

I saw two Akitas with micro at the show I was just at. Both were like Oskar--fairly mild cases, but once you see it, it's easy to recognize. What disturbed me was that one bitch with micro did fairly well, too, and I heard the judge says she was "perfect" except a little narrow in the head. I couldn't believe they didn't say anything about her eyes! I sure hope those people don't breed her! And the whole point of this kind of showing is to showcase dogs that will be bred--how is it that two dogs with a genetic disorder are being shown? I was really disturbed by it.

tsukitsune

For what its worth, I've never heard of hostility to breeders in a breed-specific rescue setting. I think breed-specific rescues are more than willing to work with breeders. One of the biggest and most active shiba rescues in the northern region was started by a breeder. And NYC Shiba Rescue was started by someone who avidly promotes responsible breeding.

In all-breed/mixed rescue I have heard some antibreeder rhetoric. Mostly those who dont' understand the public's responsibility or are just plain fed up are quick to pass judgement for 'overpopulation' on every aspect of pet keeping. And you have to understand - working directly with shelter dogs or animal control dogs literally on death row can make people want to pass blame. It's emotionally tolling work. It seems endless. So, you have to understand and empathize with that frustration.

People will always blame the public, the shelter system, breeders... it all gets in the way of solutions.

Working together is one such solution. Breeders that suggest rescues, promote rescue, donate to rescue or foster for rescues are part of the solution. Breeders who have spay/neuter clauses that they enforce are part of the solution. People learning to be responsible is the biggest part of the solution - and the one that is the most unattainable.

The show thing I never understood except that it shows the breeder makes an effort to get their dogs out there. I'm sure the show ring is far from easy to compete in, it does look like it takes a lot of effort and I'll never knock that, but it does show very little about the actual dog and breeder, you know? If I were to ever take on a breeder dog I would want a breeder to work their dogs in an area their dogs were meant to excel in (like a border collie herding, LGD guarding, etc). Don't know of a state side NK breeder hunting though, so hopefully that is something being worked towards?

The fully vetted list was a nice starting point for finding a breeder, hopefully it gets people thinking and questioning and learning.

kaikenone

I will have to agree with shishiinu on the HSUS point but would also like to add PETA to that list.... these and similar groups will not stop until all dogs are altered and there are no more being bred. And if no one i sable to breed dogs and all dogs are psayed and neutered canines will become extinct.
an article from PETA website,to a lot of people this article will sound legitimate and suck them in,they beleive that PETA is all about the welfare of the animals.... after reading PETA article please check out the next link written by Dr. Jordan about PETA's article.This analysis shows the PETA article in a whole new light.
http://www.peta.org/about/why-peta/responsible-breeders.aspx
http://www.birdcompanions.com/Rhetorical Analysis of PETA Article .pdf