Would like opinions on this :/
Is the Akita A Fighting Dog?
Having been shown a recording of a BBC program where an RSPCA officer introduced an Akita as a fighting dog and stating to the owner that 'they do have a bit of a reputation, don't they' I figured I'd put this FAQ to to clear the matter up once and for all.
The Akita has never been bred for fighting, it was never used for fighting in Japan and it was never used for killing Bears!!
The only time I have ever heard of an Akita being used for fighting was over here in the UK, and as we all know, there are some very sad people over here that will use any dog they can for their sick enjoyment!
A for people saying they were used for hunting and killing bears, do me a favour, do you honestly think an Akita, or any other dog for that matter, would be strong enough and dangerous enough to bring down an angry bear??
The use of Akitas in bear hunting was simply for tracking and cornering until the owner made his way to the area to do the killing.
This is no different to the way many breeds of dog have been and still are today used for hunting.
So there you have it, simple really, the answer is no, the Akita is not and never has been a fighting dog! <--- direct article from JAWT FAQ http://www.jawt.co.uk/akita-faqs/is-the-akita-a-fighting-dog . I for one acknowledge the akita was used for fighting at one point in their history. It doesn't define the breeds as a fighting breed but it seems to me that to even mention this, people become angry. One lady in particular on FB claims that the akita was never used for fighting, people years ago were getting confused and calling the akita inu akita ken, after another breed of dog the tosa ken. So what do y'all think? Is it wrong to mention this BRIEF horrible time in their history?
Having been shown a recording of a BBC program where an RSPCA officer introduced an Akita as a fighting dog and stating to the owner that 'they do have a bit of a reputation, don't they' I figured I'd put this FAQ to to clear the matter up once and for all.
The Akita has never been bred for fighting, it was never used for fighting in Japan and it was never used for killing Bears!!
The only time I have ever heard of an Akita being used for fighting was over here in the UK, and as we all know, there are some very sad people over here that will use any dog they can for their sick enjoyment!
A for people saying they were used for hunting and killing bears, do me a favour, do you honestly think an Akita, or any other dog for that matter, would be strong enough and dangerous enough to bring down an angry bear??
The use of Akitas in bear hunting was simply for tracking and cornering until the owner made his way to the area to do the killing.
This is no different to the way many breeds of dog have been and still are today used for hunting.
So there you have it, simple really, the answer is no, the Akita is not and never has been a fighting dog! <--- direct article from JAWT FAQ http://www.jawt.co.uk/akita-faqs/is-the-akita-a-fighting-dog . I for one acknowledge the akita was used for fighting at one point in their history. It doesn't define the breeds as a fighting breed but it seems to me that to even mention this, people become angry. One lady in particular on FB claims that the akita was never used for fighting, people years ago were getting confused and calling the akita inu akita ken, after another breed of dog the tosa ken. So what do y'all think? Is it wrong to mention this BRIEF horrible time in their history?
Comments
In the book "Dog Man" which is about the Japanese man who helped recreate the Akitas as a breed, he absolutely goes hunting with his Akitas and it is clear he is working out of a tradition of hunting bears.
I read they were bay dogs as well
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=101719346508367&set=a.101490909864544.2056.100000109070347&type=1&theater
The akita looks so awesome doing what he was born to do
That being said, the type of fighting that was/is popular in Japan is probably not what most people think of as dog fighting. This excerpt comes from the North American Shikoku Club website:
"dog fighting in Japan, known as Token, does not reward vicous or dangerous behavior like dog fighting in North America. In Token, the fight ends if a dog barks, yelps, looses the will to continue, or if a doctor judges continuing to be a potential danger to a participant's health. Thus, the weak link that the Shikoku has to dog fighting is completely unrelated to the vicous and illegal fighting that is unfortunately too common"
So yes, while Akita probably were used for fighting at some point in their history, it really is a BIG stretch to call them fighting dogs.
Having written that, the Akita was used pretty regularly for fighting at one point - actually the creation of the Tosa Inu is proof of that as the breed was "designed" specifically to dethrone the Akita Inu. It's the rise of the Tosa Inu, that pushed the Akita Inu out of the fighting ring.
The Token style of fighting is always said to be more like sumo wrestling, where the dogs push each other out of the ring, and therefore less "aggressive" than the American pit-style fighting, but in truth the sport is still pretty bloody. Ask anyone who's seen a fight in person - it's a pretty disturbing event - typically very bloody.
Also, I have seen videos of Akita still being fought today, so don't pretend there aren't still a-holes out there fighting their Akita. Still, that doesn't make them a "fighting breed". Dog fighters will fight anything that fights.
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An Akita is not a fighting dog, like others have posted already, they were used to fight, but are no means a fighting dog. Even though it is terrible that they were used for fighting and might still be used for fighting doesn't mean we should try to cover and hide what has happened or is happening today.
1.**Akita ownership was restricted to members of the nobility, and much ceremony and ritual were attached to it. Leashes indicating the dog and owner's social rank were used, and a special Akita language was developed. One emperor even passed an edict whereby the breed was to be addressed in honorific terms.** Was this legend due to the picture of the Japanese emperor photographed with his akitas or is it due to something else?
2. Japanese mother used to leave the akita to babysit their children while they went to work in the fields. Was this really true or is it hype?
3. **The breed also was developed to retrieve downed waterfowl. Although it has the strength and dentition necessary to crunch through frozen carrion, its "soft" mouth when retrieving and delivering quarry to the hunter's hand ensures downed waterfowl is never mangled.** Seems to me that that majority of akitas dislike water. Any idea how this myth came about?
As for the third, who knows, but it's particularly odd to me. The AA I have now is probably the softest mouthed dog I've ever had, but he's also the first Akita I've met with such a soft mouth! And a lot of Akitas seem allergic not only to water, but to retrieving (my boy loves to play fetch, but a lot don't!). I've never actually come across that last one.
actually, Oskar loved water as a pup, as did all his littermates. He's ok with it now, and is happy to step right into the bathtub,for example, but it's not like it was when he was a pup, when we couldn't get him out of the water. Perhaps he's part retriever!
Actually, I got a blog post in toll on the 26th about all the nay-sayers who say Shiba Inus can't hunt bears because they are too small. Mine certainly went after them on our hikes.
Plus, did that person ignored the fact some of the American Akitas are [descended] from fighting lines maintained by the Japanese Army to raise the soldiers' morales?
However people have to remember-- temperament changes over time. Remember the Chows? When they were first imported, they were the nastiest dogs you could get? Now you can actually get nice ones.
Edit: shibamistress caught me on a gaff. Originally said "ascended" instead of "descended."
And a Shiba will chase anything, but I don't think that means they'd make a good bear hunting dog.
And then finally, why would the Japanese army have American Akitas in the first place?
Sorry, but this totally confused me.
Second of all, look up what a Norrbottenspitz is. Look at weight and size. Look at what they're actually being used for. Also look up what a Jagdterrier is, their weight and size and what they are used for. There are a few others I can think of too. Now come back and say with honesty the Shibas are not capable of doing the same.
Thirdly, I didn't say Japanese Army used American Akitas. I said American Akitas are FROM the bloodlines used by the Army. Breed splits happen sometimes-- like with Norwegian Grey Elkhounds and Jamthunds in the 1950s. However people have done a good job watering down the dog-aggressiveness out of them.
Edit: Oh, I didn't see that. "Ascended" versus "descended." Sorry for the confusion. Now I feel like a moron.
Also, I've never heard anywhere that the Japanese army used Akitas to raise morale by dogfighting. The only time I've ever seen a reference to the Japanese army using Akitas was when the dogs were killed and skinned so they could be used in coats during the war. I'm afraid that bit of information still doesn't make a lot of sense even with the edit.
I'm quite aware of breed splits, especially in the Akita, but am not sure that connects to this discussion?
Mostly, I just didn't understand your post, and still don't understand the connection between neutering and hunting, but....No need to be defensive about.
LOL! Pekingese: "bark them up cow deer." Actually, people have a weird philosophy up here. Any dog that can chase, bay or catch a bear is a good bear dog-- it doesn't matter the breed, because most dogs would not go near a bear's scat. To be honest, the older I get, the more I am starting to realize, the whole concept that a breed is better at something is a matter of personal opinion; often bordering on a distortion of patriotism.
Anyway, I am not saying Shiba Inus are good bear dogs. I am just saying people who dismiss them because they are too small really should be aware of the various working styles and the different breeds used. I am starting to find the sport doesn't have to do much with prey drive, although it does have a role; or energy level, there are some really lazy dogs that love to work; or aggressiveness, as many are rather placid; but rather boldness that makes a big difference.
"Also, I've never heard anywhere that the Japanese army used Akitas to raise morale by dogfighting. The only time I've ever seen a reference to the Japanese army using Akitas was when the dogs were killed and skinned so they could be used in coats during the war. I'm afraid that bit of information still doesn't make a lot of sense even with the edit."
Yes, that was why the breed was almost wiped out-- being killed for both for the fur and consumption. It's thanks to people like Morie Sawataishi who had their part in restoring the hunting lines of the breed. However certain dogs were preserved. Anyway, you won't see "Akita Inu" specifically mentioned, but you will find accounts of Japanese conscripts using dogs to fight each others during their spare time. No mentions of what the breed the dogs were. Perhaps is this why American soldiers who returned home from the war spread the myth that Akitas are fighting dogs.
"Mostly, I just didn't understand your post, and still don't understand the connection between neutering and hunting, but....No need to be defensive about."
It's just the way I phrased it. Don't worry about it-- I am not a post-modernist; I was thinking in a evolutionary way. If you can't breed, then any value in passing on your good genes is null.
Once the Token sport began to get popular through out Japan, the Akita was crossed with various other breds to produce the Shin Akita (new Akita). With the start of the Shin Akita you start to see dogs with the Akita resemblance but with drooped ears, longer dropped tails, and various colors. Now with the Akita becoming much popular with the token world, the medium sized Akita inu was separated and called the Akita Nikkei. The Akita Nikkei originated in the Yuzawa area of Akita prefecture.
The Akita Nikkei was the direct lines of the original medium sized Akita inu and many were used primarily for big game hunting. From what I have read in the Japanese NK books, the time line seems to show that at about the time when WW2 began, the Shin Akita and the Akita Nikkei slowly transformed into the JA that we have today. The Shin Akita was replaced with the Tosa Token and the Akita Nikkei was slowly bred to become the JA.
Looking at the photos, even the JA at post WW2 looks really different from the JA today. i have not seen or heard of too many hunting JA's today but I'm sure its not impossible task to train a JA or a AA to hunt. I am a big believer in the fact that a specific breed is much suited and would excel at hunting then a breed not known to be used to hunt. Thats just my own personal opinion and from my own experience hunting with NKs, Hounds, and bird dogs.