Interesting news video, I love how they show and emphasizes that the pit is not as vicious as their reputation. I wonder though how the dogs tested would react if someone came in through the window, or noisily broke in instead of just opening the door. Dogs can be so used to people coming in through the doorway that they may think that there would be nothing wrong with the strangers who come in. And who knows, maybe some of these dogs are used to someone other than their owner coming in, like a dog walker or sitter.
To me, it's kind of sad that these people were all disappointed about their dogs not being the vicious guardians that the people wanted them to be. In NY, if someone were to break into your house and your dog mauls them, that burglar can sue you and possibly win because of the stupid property liability laws. There was a case of a burglar breaking his leg from falling through a skylight, sued the homeowner that he was robbing from, and won. So imagine how much worse it could be if there was a dog involved
Considering that even bitesport trained dogs can't be guaranteed to bite in a real life scenario, it's not surprising.
I want my dogs to be a visible deterrent. If they're gonna break in anyway, I rather my dogs stay out of the way and not get hurt. I rather lose the tv than my dog.
They should try that at your house Brad. If 95% of dogs won't aggress to an intruder unless trained, it makes me wonder what kinds of dogs they used to get those numbers. Not very convincing when they have a lab and some pits as examples. They should have tried the test with a CO.
I think they probably wanted to show "the average pet owner", and the average pet owner doesn't own a CO.
I tend to agree with Rina, with the exception of a dog I buy for PP work or Guarding work, I'd rather my dogs make a lot of noise but not engage the a threat. I don't want them hurt, and I don't want them going "all in" if they're not "built" for the job. Like that little dog in the vid, even if it did bite, you could just punt that thing across the room... Seems irresponsible of the owner to want that dog to engage. JMHO
Many years ago between my sister, a live in friend, and myself we had a berner, two rotties, a springer, a wire fox, a cairn, and a scottie. One Sunday morning, a police officer approached me to ask how the baby sitter (for my children) had fared.
When I asked him what he was talking about, he told me the sitter had called the police b/c she thought someone was in the house. The officers came to the front door and all the dogs ran to the door barking (they would hush if we said 'thank you' but hadnt shared that with the sitter).
So the officers went to the back door and the dogs surged to that door, then everyone returned to the front where the officer said that he yelled through the barely cracked door that he was sure no one was in the house that shouldnt be there and left the babysitter to the dogs' protection. She never said a word to us. The rotties would definitely not let someone in, but the others were just frosting. My bulldog would offer tea and share her favorite bone with any intruder.
But Brad has a good point about dealing with the legal ramifications of a dog bite (or if we use a gun for protection). I understand that it bodes even worse for the householder if there is a "beware of the dog" sign posted.
That was both an interesting and frustrating video. Interesting because of the subject matter; frustrating because it's such a "local news" nonstory (local to anywhere, I mean), manufactured and superficial. (Sorry but I have a great loathing for local TV news).
I agree with others--the point is not that the dogs engage, but that the dogs are simply a deterrent. I also agree I wouldn't want my dogs to engage and be hurt. I did laugh at the lab, though. People were afraid of my GSD, because he barked ferociously and was a GSD. But I had no doubt he'd just let someone in and bring the ball to get them to play with him!
Of my current dogs, I think they'd do the bark and back up thing....they'd be scared, I think. Poor Oskar would probably pee, as he still does when he gets overly excited.
I did also have to laugh at the happy pit who wasn't even concerned when the guy "threatened" his owner. I do wonder, though if there were something about this whole set up that tipped the dogs off that it wasn't that big a deal. Perhaps, at least in that case, the lack of real fear in the owner? I know that even my happy GSD showed himself willing to engage if he thought I was being threatened. (By engage, I only mean he showed he would try: he jumped to get in between me and threats, and growled and jumped up). I'm not 100% sure any of my current dogs would, but Oskar does show quite a bit of concern when strangers get too close to me, and he likes to get in between us. Who knows?
But yeah....try that with a CO. Whole different ball game.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I expect from most dogs. I think they will mostly just bark a little... and that's it. Most people own non-working dogs that don't have that in them. But, that's what I would want my dogs to do. I would just want them to sound the alarm.
I'm tempted to try an experiment like this on my dogs. I think Sosuke would be weirded out, but in the end, would probably just be interested to see a new person. Rakka would be weirded out and probably not stop being weirded out. She would probably follow the person around and bark at them the whole time.
Huh, I want my big dog to engage an intruder. I also expect him to call off if I say so.
The Shibas could get injured too easily, so I expect them to bark and retreat (and hope they would retreat more than anything if a stranger was trying to mess with them).
I wonder if dogs that passed the atts temperament tests would change the outcomes. Also, would the dog bite during the violent stranger tests if they got close enough?
Conker, unless he knows the person, will bark and bay but keep his distance. If they don't make fast moves he'll move in for a sniff but if they act aggressive then he won't stop barking and keep his distance. Juneau and Sasha sound huge and scary but once the door is open... typical Lab reactions. Oh, hello! You want the TV? Here! Let me help you carry it.
@shibamistress ("the lack of real fear in the owner?") I think there very well could have been engagement in an authentic situation, but all of these guys (dogs) are expert 'people readers' and were probably just wondering what the heck was going on.
A guardian breed (OCs, rotties, etc) would not have let a stranger in the house and would have engaged - but such breeds were GLADLY not shown to to general public. Bullies were traditionally reliable around people - one named Jack went west with Laura Engalls Wilder. @Losech haha - who would get a lab thinking they had a guard dog? With your two labs to help, the burglar could the stereo too! What kind of dog is Conker? @lindsayt what kind of big dog do you have?
The last part of the ATTS temperament test takes into account a dog's breed and level of training. A whippet is not expected to be protective but more like keenly observant and not panicking. A rottie with Sch training would be expected to keep his protective position in front of the owner and bark continuously. Can't assume that passing ATTS equates to protective during a home invasion.
For me, I want my dogs (40 to 60 lbs) to engage a home invader enough to leave a blood trail for DNA evidence. They may get hurt/killed but that's my expectation of what their job is.
The main reason I don't want my dogs to engage a person breaking in the house, is because if someone then killed my dog, I would have to go find them and shoot them and would probably go to prison, which, frankly, sounds unpleasant. So I'd rather the dogs barked but didn't engage and someone stole my TV.
Jan3t, Conker is a Shiba Inu. Juneau and Sasha are also half Border Collie. We wanted watch dogs (not guard dogs) and the BC/Lab mix fits perfectly. They bark at just about everything close to the house and are perfect alarm systems.
I agree with the not wanting my dog engaging and getting killed since I'd do something similar and go revenge on the person. However, if I had a guardian breed I'd expect them to do just that and stop the trespasser.
Yeah, guardian breeds you got to guard are different. When I say "my dogs" I mean the dogs I plan on owning and guardian breeds just aren't on that list as of right now heh.
I couldn't give 2 shits about 99.9% of the stuff I own, a robber can take my TV - I don't care. It's my family (which includes our dogs) I worry about, and that's why we have guardians. Living in such a remote place it would take awhile for the cops to respond out here... So, I like to know, at the very least, our guardians will buy us some time, and I expect them to engage and do as much damage is needed.
Tashi (Parka's breeder) was telling me about a few dogs that, in her ongoing selection process, she has tested and worked and culled because they were too nasty. They were culled from her program, not because they wouldn't protect, but because they were "too mean" (they had too much civil aggression).
She said that when they did a similar test to this video with those dogs, one of them actually stood at the door wagging his tail and play-bowed, then ducked out of the room into the hallway to "lure" the intruder in. As soon as he came in the dog went for a full face bite! Now how messed up is that? That dog simply just wants to hurt people... crazy! (the dog was a Bouvier imported from Russia who was from the riot control police - a real "man eater")
"She said that when they did a similar test to this video with those dogs, one of them actually stood at the door wagging his tail and play-bowed, then ducked out of the room into the hallway to "lure" the intruder in. As soon as he came in the dog went for a full face bite!"
Comments
To me, it's kind of sad that these people were all disappointed about their dogs not being the vicious guardians that the people wanted them to be. In NY, if someone were to break into your house and your dog mauls them, that burglar can sue you and possibly win because of the stupid property liability laws. There was a case of a burglar breaking his leg from falling through a skylight, sued the homeowner that he was robbing from, and won. So imagine how much worse it could be if there was a dog involved
I want my dogs to be a visible deterrent. If they're gonna break in anyway, I rather my dogs stay out of the way and not get hurt. I rather lose the tv than my dog.
I tend to agree with Rina, with the exception of a dog I buy for PP work or Guarding work, I'd rather my dogs make a lot of noise but not engage the a threat. I don't want them hurt, and I don't want them going "all in" if they're not "built" for the job. Like that little dog in the vid, even if it did bite, you could just punt that thing across the room... Seems irresponsible of the owner to want that dog to engage. JMHO
----
When I asked him what he was talking about, he told me the sitter had called the police b/c she thought someone was in the house. The officers came to the front door and all the dogs ran to the door barking (they would hush if we said 'thank you' but hadnt shared that with the sitter).
So the officers went to the back door and the dogs surged to that door, then everyone returned to the front where the officer said that he yelled through the barely cracked door that he was sure no one was in the house that shouldnt be there and left the babysitter to the dogs' protection. She never said a word to us. The rotties would definitely not let someone in, but the others were just frosting. My bulldog would offer tea and share her favorite bone with any intruder.
But Brad has a good point about dealing with the legal ramifications of a dog bite (or if we use a gun for protection). I understand that it bodes even worse for the householder if there is a "beware of the dog" sign posted.
I agree with others--the point is not that the dogs engage, but that the dogs are simply a deterrent. I also agree I wouldn't want my dogs to engage and be hurt. I did laugh at the lab, though. People were afraid of my GSD, because he barked ferociously and was a GSD. But I had no doubt he'd just let someone in and bring the ball to get them to play with him!
Of my current dogs, I think they'd do the bark and back up thing....they'd be scared, I think. Poor Oskar would probably pee, as he still does when he gets overly excited.
I did also have to laugh at the happy pit who wasn't even concerned when the guy "threatened" his owner. I do wonder, though if there were something about this whole set up that tipped the dogs off that it wasn't that big a deal. Perhaps, at least in that case, the lack of real fear in the owner? I know that even my happy GSD showed himself willing to engage if he thought I was being threatened. (By engage, I only mean he showed he would try: he jumped to get in between me and threats, and growled and jumped up). I'm not 100% sure any of my current dogs would, but Oskar does show quite a bit of concern when strangers get too close to me, and he likes to get in between us. Who knows?
But yeah....try that with a CO. Whole different ball game.
I'm tempted to try an experiment like this on my dogs. I think Sosuke would be weirded out, but in the end, would probably just be interested to see a new person. Rakka would be weirded out and probably not stop being weirded out. She would probably follow the person around and bark at them the whole time.
The Shibas could get injured too easily, so I expect them to bark and retreat (and hope they would retreat more than anything if a stranger was trying to mess with them).
Juneau and Sasha sound huge and scary but once the door is open... typical Lab reactions. Oh, hello! You want the TV? Here! Let me help you carry it.
A guardian breed (OCs, rotties, etc) would not have let a stranger in the house and would have engaged - but such breeds were GLADLY not shown to to general public. Bullies were traditionally reliable around people - one named Jack went west with Laura Engalls Wilder. @Losech haha - who would get a lab thinking they had a guard dog? With your two labs to help, the burglar could the stereo too! What kind of dog is Conker? @lindsayt what kind of big dog do you have?
For me, I want my dogs (40 to 60 lbs) to engage a home invader enough to leave a blood trail for DNA evidence. They may get hurt/killed but that's my expectation of what their job is.
I have a CO
I agree with the not wanting my dog engaging and getting killed since I'd do something similar and go revenge on the person. However, if I had a guardian breed I'd expect them to do just that and stop the trespasser.
Tashi (Parka's breeder) was telling me about a few dogs that, in her ongoing selection process, she has tested and worked and culled because they were too nasty. They were culled from her program, not because they wouldn't protect, but because they were "too mean" (they had too much civil aggression).
She said that when they did a similar test to this video with those dogs, one of them actually stood at the door wagging his tail and play-bowed, then ducked out of the room into the hallway to "lure" the intruder in. As soon as he came in the dog went for a full face bite! Now how messed up is that? That dog simply just wants to hurt people... crazy! (the dog was a Bouvier imported from Russia who was from the riot control police - a real "man eater")
----
Wow..scary.
Thats one scary story!