Sushi's first vet visit - Neutering dilemma

ivanmeza03

So yesterday was sushi's first vet visit (well 2nd actually), he did wonderful, he did not made any sound whatsoever when the vet applied the vaccine nor when they put the other thing trough his nose, he was calm and playful all the time. At some point he thought every other dog wanted to eat him and he acted defensive towards everyone getting near him, he eventually relaxed.

What concerns me is that the guy asked us if we wanted to neuter him in a future and we both replied with a big NO. The guy was surprised and asked us why, we told him that we thought it was stressful and traumatic and that we did not wanted to do that to him.

He told us that after the first 5 years every year there was a 5% chance of him getting prostate cancer and other diseases/conditions; there is where we got scared.

What do you guys think? this is actually common on male dogs? Do you guys recommend neutering? what are the chances of any disease/condition from happening?

cmpteki

Personally...I take a wait and see approach. If one of the dogs ends up with an issue related to the reproductive areas, the solution is usually to remove the affected area; so the spay or neuter happens if it has to. I have seen a tremendous amount of differing opinions and reports on fix vs leave intact. If done too young bone structure and growth can be affected. The animals attitude may or may not change. Regardless, it is a personal choice, and so long as the dog owner is responsible and does not contribute to animal overpopulation problems by letting their companion loose to sow his wild oats or her to play without supervision when in season, I don't see an issue with leaving a dog intact. Lifespan and disease are always a roll of the dice, all we can do is properly care for our four legged friends and hope for the best. I would never make a decision on a possible disease; should I cut off my hand because my keyboard might leave me with carpal tunnel and arthritis?

If you do have it done; choose a good vet, they try to make the experience as stress free as possible. I guarantee you will be more stressed at the start of the appointment than the dog would be if he could take himself.

okiron

What does your breeder say?

sunyata

lol... Way to open up a can of worms. (just kidding)

Thoughts on neutering or not neutering (for RESPONSIBLE pet owners) can range on absolutely it should be done to absolutely it should not be done. (I know, so helpful, right?)

My personal opinion (for responsible pet owners) is this: If the dog is not going to be responsibly bred or shown, then the dog should be neutered at the appropriate age for the breed. Sushi is a Shiba, right? If so, then the appropriate age would be between 10 months and 2 years. The reason I have this opinion is for health reasons. Neutering is a very simple surgery that if done correctly can have no lasting effects or complications. However, if a dog is left intact, there is stress from being near females in heat and the increased risk of cancers and other health complications.

But Sushi is not my dog. So I think you need to ask yourself some questions... Why do you want to leave Sushi intact? Are you willing to do whatever needs to be done to prevent an unplanned pregnancy, even to a dog that is not owned by you, such as a stray or neighbor's dog? Are the health risks worth leaving him intact? Are you required by a contract from your breeder to neuter Sushi, did you purchase him on a pet contract?

The best thing I can suggest that you do is talk to your breeder about what is best for Sushi and research the instances of prostate/testicular cancer in dogs. I am sure that you will make the best decision for both your family and Sushi.

ivanmeza03

The breeder and I came with that topic when I asked him about Sushi's papers. He told me that in order to get the papers I needed to neuter Sushi, and I replied saying that I did not know if I wanted to neuter him, not because I want to show him or breed him to make a profit out of him, but because I did not feel good about it. He made me sign a contract stating that I will not show Sushi or breed him to make money and I am truly not interested in any of that, I just want him to be my pet, companion and friend ( I see dogs as family members) for years to come. I did read about the cons and pros of neutering, and like cmpteki said its a roll of dice, I know it affects its growing and I think 6 months its too young to have his little privates removed, he will need the hormones and stuff. So I do not really what to do.

the_november_rain

This article from Rutgers University is a few years old, but interesting. It may help with your decision.

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longtermhealtheffectsofspayneuterindogs.pdf

shibamistress

I had some questions about neutering too...if you do a search on the forum, you'll find some other threads about it, and some links to different articles, including the one Jessika also linked above.

If you signed a spay/neuter contract, though, you have to honor that. Honestly, I don't think that it hurts to neuter a dog as an adult dog, but I would not neuter before 1 year. Some people say it's ok for Shibas to be neutered in the 6 mos-to 1 year range since they mature earlier than larger dogs, and maybe it is, but I would prefer to wait.

That said, once the dog has reached full growth, I don't really see why you shouldn't neuter. With my Akita, it did stop some of his more gross sex related behaviors (let's just say before neutering, he was rather obssessed with my (spayed) female Shiba's pee), but otherwise didn't seem to change him much.

I'd say wait til he's a year old, but I really don't see that you can NOT do it if you signed a spay/neuter contract.

tjbart17

I'm not sure I would ever neuter a dog again. So I'm not of any help to this discussion, but I understand where you are coming from.

ivanmeza03

to clarify things: I did not signed a spay/neuter contract, I did signed a contract that says I will not show Sushi or breed him to make profit. The breeder and I talked about this and came out with this contract, I told him I was not comfortable neutering/spaying dogs.

I'm so confused right now about what to do

Saya

There's a few threads on this issue so look them over might find something helpful. coarse there's the issue with overpopulation so please consider that so never let him off leash, or near a female that is ready to mate etc..

Next time I spay/neuter it'll be later one year or two wish I waited for Saya to have done at a year.

The surgery went fine and she had no issue with it just had to keep her calm for a bit.

tjbart17

Sushi is so young. Don't worry about this right now. Wait it out and decide later. Right now you have some socializing to do. Seems so premature to worry. Just relax and have fun with your pup, and don't worry about our opinions on whether or not you neuter Sushi.

shibamistress

Oh, I misunderstood! If you didn't sign a spay neuter contract, and don't feel comfortable doing it, then don't neuter him! To be honest, I've kind of gotten to where Tara is about neutering (esp. since my Akita had some complications after the neutering), but I'm not entirely there yet. I certainly don't see why it is that necessary as long as you can keep your dog from breeding, so.....Yeah. There's no reason to do it if you have concerns, and there are reasons to be concerned, I think.

Losech

Yeah, don't worry about it right now.

My personal opinion is: If you can securely contain him, there's no need to neuter. If he doesn't have any bad inheritable defects, there's no need to neuter.
If your fence/doors/windows/whatever is unsecured, neutering when he reaches physical maturity might be a good idea. And if he turns out to have a bad inheritable condition, it's better to neuter him in my opinion.
I would never neuter ANY dog under the age of two unless it was for a life threatening medical condition where it was 100% necessary, or it was said in a contract, but I'd probably go with a different breeder if that were the case.
I like to give my dogs time to grow properly and frankly, other people's opinions of what's "responsible" shouldn't get in the way of that or the overall health of my dog. I've met a couple people here who've got intact dogs and they often tell me I'm the first person they've met who hasn't lectured them on speutering their pets. Maybe it's because I know better and actually research this kind of stuff and know how it can possibly adversely, or positively, affect a dog.

Conker was neutered when he was about 2 1/2 months old by the shelter I got him from. He looks like a girl (seriously, he does) and while I'm no expert on this, he is way too tall for a Shiba his size. I like to attribute that to abnormal bone grown from being neutered too young but then again it could just be his bad breeding.

Anywho, like I said, don't worry about it right now. When he's older you can make the final decision. Just don't neuter him while he's still a pup if you have it done.

NotoriousScrat

In my opinion, you should do it. I'm in the camp that believes in always neutering unless you plan on breeding or showing because I believe that no matter how careful you are, accidents can always happen (I also don't believe in letting any dog off-leash in a non-enclosed area for the same reason). He's going to be really motivated to get out when there's a female in heat and with some dogs it's hard enough to thwart them when they aren't going crazy to get to a female. To me, that sounds like setting yourself up for failure. Either way, you just never know and the fact is that overall, neutering is a very simple surgery. It's not going to traumatize him or he will probably have no ill effects from it whatsoever. Yes, there MIGHT be some sort of complication. But someone could accidentally hit the wrong button and destroy the world too. Nothing is ever risk free, so to me the benefits always outweigh the negatives unless there is a very specific reason not to, like allergies to anesthetics or wanting to breed.

That said, don't let yourself be bullied over this (even by me!) and give yourself some time to think it over. While I don't actually think he's too young to neuter (there are pros and cons to both waiting and doing it right away, reasonable people can disagree about this), that doesn't mean you have to make the decision right now. Doing it at six months, a year or even two years (when growth has definitely stopped and he's mature) will be just fine too.

lindsayt

My suggestion is to neuter by 9 months. Most Shibas will reach their growth by then, with filling out over the next few years.

Ask me about how much intact males can suck! I consider myself a progressive dog owner, but common sense is something people tend to overlook when they get caught up in dogma. In a perfect world, dogs wouldnt need to be spayed or neutered, but I am witht the camp that believes they should be jf they arent showing, working or breeding.

I have a bitch in heat, and my two intact males are whining, pee licking, blowing me off, and marking all over, and doing it inside now which is disgusting. They are not eating and they are keeping me awake all night with the whimpering. I have to use tranqs when she is fertile, or else pay to board the dogs. It is not cruel to the dog to neuter using current techniques, and will save you headache down the road.

shibamistress

I'm familiar with the pee licking. And that's with a spayed female. I can only imagine what it would be like with a bitch in heat. Other than slowing that down right away, Oskar acts pretty much the same since he's been neutered.

ivanmeza03

I guess is something that we have to consider before getting a dog.

I can't blame a dog for his/her instincts, that's what dogs do.

sandrat888

@lindsayt

Or you can have Farrah stay with me while she is in heat! My boy is fixed and all he wants to do is play with his aunt.

Araks

@ivanmeza03 if that's how you feel about neutering, why don't you at least get a vasectomy done on Sushi? My dog, Sevuk has one, and he still acts like a completely intact male, which I'm fine with and have learned how to handle, except for the fact that he can't impregnate a female. The problem is though, that it's tough to find a vet that'll do it.

Saya

That is a good idea about vasectomy.

Wolves at the wolf park have vasectomy. They do it to the ones that are related just in case so no inbreeding or something like that. I need to ask them next time I go if that's correct..

violet_in_seville

The other point to consider is the general status of the other dogs in your area. Do you live some place where there is a high incidence of unaltered dogs? I find that larger cities will also inevitably have quite a few unaltered dogs. My boy is a semi-active conformation show dog so he remains unaltered. However since we live in areas where most neuter and spay we haven't had to deal with the unpleasant behavioral aspects of having an unaltered boy.