Are akitas slow learners?

Brego_mellon_nin

I apologize if I'm doubleposting, I did do a search on this matter but didn't find anything, so I hope it's okay that I ask.

In a discussion with a friend (who met both Eo and my foster AA Jason), she mentioned, that she thought the akitas were very slow learners. Like if you try to teach them something like "sit" or "high five", they watch you, with a big question mark in their faces. A little goofy... Not that they don't get it, but they seem... well... a bit slow (not unintelligent tho). In a recent thread about akitas, that opinion seemed to shine through in most of the answers on akita training.
Now I have previously asked about things I thought was typical for a breed and been completely wrong, so I'd like to know what you guys think.

Are the akitas slow learners?
Are the AA slower than the average JA? I have always seen the JA as more well... more athletic and active, more quick so to speak, but I may be wrong. I haven't seen the two breeds together.

*JackBurton*

I think that they are very fast learners. The issue for me is stubbornness. My JA really shows when she is getting ready to make a naughty decision. It's like watching the gears turn in her head. When Kaeda was younger, we were at a coffee shop and a pepper packet had fallen on the floor. Kaeda being very sneaky covered the packet with her paws and slowly opened it. All of the sudden I heard coughing and gagging... she took a lick. The person next to me said " Dogs: Diabolicly smart yet comically dumb".

the_november_rain

When Kagome was in puppy class she did very well, pretty studious girl. She did not give the trainers any challenge. She is quick to learn, but kinda slow to act on a command. Kinda like, "What's the rush? We got all day."

Brego_mellon_nin

Just to be sure, you are both talking about JA right?

Well doesn't sound bad to me. Might've just been the few I've experienced...

the_november_rain

Yes. Time isn't of an essence. The only time Kagome is fast is when she is inhaling her food.

shibamistress

I think it depends on what you're comparing them to. Oskar seems a bit slow in all things. He's cautious. He likes to check things out first. He understood fairly quickly what to do for a command, but he had to decide if he wanted to do it first, and he's still much slower to figure things out than the Shibas, who learn lightening fast (but often can't be bothered to actually DO whatever it is they've learned unless it has a clear benefit to them).

Oskar in general seems slower than some other dogs. One of my friends says if you watch him--yes, with that question mark look on his face--he looks goofy and kind of dumb, but he's not at all. He's just checking things out, and he learns very well by watching others (he imitates Bel, the female Shiba, quite a bit). He's not quick to follow a command even if he understands it. I don't even think he's terribly stubborn, though he can be, he's just....measured in his actions!

And I've seen other AAs like this. I don't know if I'd say they were slow to learn, but if you're comparing them to other NKs, maybe.

Brego_mellon_nin

@shibamistress
You've actually described it better than I could! Sometimes I lack a few... well, nuances to my english ;

I've only seen a JA once, and she was actually a multiple winner of dog dancing contests, but all the AAs I've seen and met has had that slow air about them. Measured in actions, to put it your way

venus

my Aa isn't slow at all she wasn't easy to train but thats because she would question everything i tried to teach her. i'd try and get her to do something and she would just look at me as if to say and whats in it for me. she likes everything on her terms. Athena my JA is easy, she just loves to please so by the time she was 5 months old she was trained to a much higher standard than venus.

Brego_mellon_nin

@venus
So you're saying that your AA was a bit like Lisa said, that they do know and catch on quick, they just need a better reason to do it?

Well I guess it's difficult to come to any conclusions on whether there's difference between the JA and AA in general. Like always it depends on the individuals...

I guess I thought that because the AA is mixed with fx mastiff, that could be the reason why they're a bit more slow in the response. Anyone know if there might be something to this?

venus

exactly tanja, they are very quick learners they just don't see a need to do what we ask and in venus case she doesn't care about food or toys so won't work for those.
i have to say though that my experience with the Japanese akita inu for which i've owned two is totally different from my experience with my american, both JA where quick learners and both where eager to please.

Brego_mellon_nin

@venus
So in your experience there IS a difference between the two?

venus

with mine there is. both my bitches are very different both from a training point of view and in general temperments, my ja male that is no longer with us was a different kettle of fish all together but he had temperment issues. although i do see some of his traits in athena(ja) but to a much lesser extent.

shibamistress

@Tanyja, I think the mastiff is so far back in the lines that it probably doesn't effect them as a breed anymore. If it were ever in there to a large degree anyway. So I wouldn't say that's why they're like that.

I actually think the temperment of AAs has improved quite a bit in the last 20 years. The first AA I had was in the late 80s and while she was individually kind of a mess, I talked with a fair amount of people with AAs in those days, and the temeperament they are still somewhat known for then (very dog aggressive, sometimes aggressive with people, sharp--say more like a Shiba) seemed to be fairly common. Now, I've seen some of those types of AAs still, even at shows, but a lot more AAs I've seen are gentler with people and dogs, and more calm, steady, and generally a friendlier, easier dog. They're still not labs, but they are easier. This is just my experience, of course, and may be way off base, but I feel like the breed has become steadier of temperament.

I don't know if that relates to training, but I do think they're different than they were. Also, regarding training, I would throw this out: I think Akitas mature pretty slowly. Oskar is still pretty puppyish at 16 months, and getting him to focus is still a struggle. I think he's appeared slow to learn because he's so easily distracted. Though like I said, he is slower than the Shibas.

BradA1878

@Brego_mellon_nin - I think your friend may be confusing drive with intelligence (or "slowness"). In a traditional training sense, all our Akita were/are just as quick to learn as any other dogs we've owned. The difference is that they don't have as much drive to work as some of the others. A real drivey dogs will be super snappy with their OB when given a command (like "sit") while an Akita might not be as quick to preform the requested behavior - but that doesn't mean they learned the behavior any slower than the snappy dog, it just means they aren't as motivated to preform it.

----

shibamistress

Good point, Brad, and I think drive is exactly what I'm talking about with Oskar. He learns; he just doesn't have the drive to perform.

Brego_mellon_nin

@Brada1878
I was very careful about not calling them unintelligent, because I don't think that at all. But yeah, now that you mention it, drive is probably the word I was searching for. It certainly seemed like both Eo and Jason (the AA I took care of on occasion) had that slow response or low drive. But with Eo I kinda got the feeling she wasn't at all interested in learning. If she had wanted to (or if I had found her "button") she could've been good. She just preferred to do all her fast learning when it came to finding holes in the fences or chasing birds in the yard

Wow, sometimes I feel so stupid in this forum! LOL
I'm always using incorrect words or assuming something false :P

venus

tanja i feel the same sometimes but i know someone will come along and get what i mean.

shibamistress

anyway, we understood! And I didn't think of drive as being the right word, either, until Brad pointed it out, and of course that's it!

jan3t

Maybe the "word" is motivation.

I had a little short legged, seemingly unathletic terrier at the same time I had two-year-twins. I thought the dog was sweet and loved him dearly, but considered him not too smart until I watched him interacting with the usually wild and crazy twins. He had both of them totally under his control (at the same time!), having trained them how to complete tasks like pick him up just so and carefully place him on the couch, fetch what he wanted, etc. He was also very clever at sneaking out. I would know where he'd been from the trail of phone messages I listened to when I got home from work. His regular outings included the library and police station, among many other of his friends. If I wasn't home the police would let me know they gave him a lift to the shelter, where the next message would explain that Teddy was doing rounds with them and eating cookies and I could pick him up at my convenience (no charge). He always had everyone twisted around his little paw.

I realized that he simply had no interest in doing the things I tried to 'teach' him, but when he was interested in something he was pretty motivated - and successful. However, he didn't have drive the way I think of the word. He only moved fast on vermin, but was otherwise very subtle.

....not to get too off topic, but I always wondered....

The other thing that amazed me about Teddy is that he would really scrap with skunks until the back yard was filled with the spray and none of us dared to go out, but the musk never clung to his coat - no smell lingered on him except maybe a bit on his breath. The first time it happened I rushed to the store during the tussle to get tomato juice, douche, and skunk off, but didn't need any of it. Have you ever heard of this?

He was a good ratter until we got guinea pigs, then he must have decided that some family members are vermin and some vermin are family b/c he loved the little piggies and totally swore off ratting.

kumasgirl

slow learners i think akitas humour us most of the time till we catch up with them there way too smart to be dumb well my two do with me its a game to them catch up mum.

jan3t

@kumasgirl - Haha - I think I would like your two!

shishiinu

Same thing with my dogs, they will kill skunks and the entire yard will stink but the dogs would be fine after one bath with dog shampoo. Really weird...

jan3t

@shishiinu - finally someone has experienced this!

Do you think its the type of fur? My terrier did not even need a bath following even an intense encounter. He had wirey fur. Most dogs will emit the skunk odor months after an encounter each time they go swimming.

shibamistress

Wierd. The Akita I had years ago got sprayed by a skunk and it was months before it was out of her fur.....

I was thinking about the terrier thing too....My friend has a border terrier, and as we were discussing, he has so little impulse control (he's only 6 months old, though). He just sees something, wants it, and snatches it! Or leaps on the couch repeatedly and doggedly (I'm sure that word was invented for terriers) even when she doesn't want him up there, etc. He's just very determined when he wants something.

Oskar my Akita is so different! He has to consider everything. He likes to watch and decide. For everything! New food? Better consider it and look at it, and sniff it and lick it before eating it. Even playing, he likes to watch first before he starts playing. We're still working on impulse control on somethings, but if it's a new thing he has to decide and consider before he does it. And Oskar is pretty easy to distract from something too--if he's doing something we don't want, we can redirect pretty easily. He's not that motivated to keep trying and trying.

jan3t

I enjoy all kinds of personalities, but at this juncture I think I prefer those like Oskar - I am less active than I used to be and, as they say, 'still waters run deep'.

white_bear

In a nutshell - they learn fast, get bored even faster. I would say the speed of their reaction to a command grows exponentially with the yumminess of the treat or the length of time since the last training session. I found it odd that they really enjoy training sessions if they are scheduled farther apart.

Lunamyakita

My akita is very smart but can also be lazy it took me months to get her to start responding to commands quickly now she is very good at them but i am having a lot of difficulty with geting her to retrieve mainly because she doesnt like doing anything energetic unless shes in the mood if she is not in the mood i have not yet maneged to get her to retrieve.