Female Reproductive Issues?

BradA1878

How many of us have owned a female Shikoku Ken who has had "strange" heat cycles? Would you mind sharing it with us? What was strange about it?

For us, we had Loa who had one normal heat, then what appeared to be a split heat, then 2 more heats. She averaged at least 2 heats a year.

Cho Cho had the strange split heat thing too, but with her first heat. Then she had a normal heat, and then this past one was very short. She has had 3 heats and is only 13 months old!

Ahi was spayed at her first heat.

So, anyone else experienced these strange heats with their female Shikoku Ken?

Is there a reproductive issues in the breed that we're all ignoring?

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ShikokuSpirit

Hahah...I can relate!


I think Kotomi had a split first heat cycle. Then she seem to have regular heat cycles about every 10 months. Her 5th cycle this past summer was normal. However, she started a split in September....it stopped and then she finished up October/November. So here's hoping her next cycle will be normal.


I know Katja has experienced split cycles with Yana and I believe Mura only has 1 ovary that's functional (the other ovary is damaged). Both Yana and Mura were still capable of producing litters. However, Katja's first Shikoku female Import, Retsu, was never able to get pregnant to produce a litter no matter how hard Katja tried. =[


I think you might be on to something concerning the reproductive system in Shikoku. I've suspected this as a potiental issue as well. Let us not forget Aki who is sterile too, right? This is a possible serious concern within the breed for sure. Thanks for bringing it up. I wonder what the ratio in Japan is? I understand most breeders choose not to breed often but what troubles have they had when attempting to produce litters? How many breedings turned out unsuccessful? How many breedings were actually successful?

CrimsonO2

Kurenai had her first heat in mid-August, and then just started bleeding again over Thanksgiving weekend. I would consider that a split heat considering she's only 13 months old.

Jesse

ayk

Are the split heats always in the fall?

Calia

Miyu has only had one heat before being spayed. From what I figure, she was fairly normal. She got it around 8 months old, lasted about 14 days, kept humping the boys. Got her spayed at almost 13months with no sign of another heat coming.


Brad, didn't ChoCho's second heat (or second part of split heat) occur when practically all your other girls went into heat? I'm wondering if it's not really the fact that they have weird cycles but more that they are "sensitive" to the cycles of other bitches around them.

I kind of am also wondering, since Miyu still has her uterus, if my girl would have some form of heat symptoms if she lived with several intact females (like what Brad has, for example)to hormonally feed off of.

BradA1878

I'm sure all of our females plays a role in pulling the others in sooner than expected sometimes... but the split heats are strange... and the fact that it seems so prominent in the Shikoku just makes me feel like it's pointing some bigger reproductive issue. I mean, I haven't seen split heats in any other breed we've had (CC, CO, Akita, Kai...).

sukoshi_mom

Hmm. I have no background on actual dog breeding, but a strange thought just occurred to me. To wit: Would there be any "advantage" for a bitch to have split heats? Would a split heat allow her to check out the suitability of potential mates w/o actually committing to a specific male? (Just an off the wall thought)

Nekopan

From what I have read, split heats do not necessarily mean there are issues with reproduction. They are also common in young bitches, and are often outgrown.

Split heats occur when a bitch grows follicles on her ovaries and experiences the signs of pro-oestrus (swollen vulva, vulvar bleeding, attractiveness to males) but does not progress into oestrus and does not ovulate. The bitch's follicles will usually regress, and then she will come into a complete heat cycle with ovulation anywhere from two to 12 weeks later. Split heats are most common in a young bitch, especially at her first season, and are not considered to be associated with infertility when bred on the cycle in which ovulation occurs. Split heats must be differentiated from short inter-oestrous intervals between two true heat cycles. A vaginal smear will show red blood cells and intermediate and superficial cells as would be expected during pro-oestrus but in a split heat will not progress into an oestrus smear.

From: http://www.k9magazinefree.com/k9_perspective/iss1p23.shtml

@Brad: I seem to recall you posting that Loa had cysts on her ovaries? That sounds more indicative of reproductive problems.

@Calia: From what my vet has told me, the ovaries are responsible for producing the hormones necessary for going into season and things like pyometra, so Miyu shouldn't have any heat symptoms. If she had a tubal ligation instead of an ovariectomy, she would still go into heat but not release eggs and therefore not able to be bred.

ttddinh

Hmmm very interesting. @calia you bring up an interesting point. I wonder if female dogs heat in sync....kind of like a group of females living in the same quarters will have their period very close to one another...

lindsayt

Split heats are often familial. As with litter size, the tendency will pass from mother to daughter. With such a tight gene pool, I would say it is inherited, more than environmental, and bears observing. It is a frustrating thing for sure, in terms of breeding, and I too wonder how the Japanese overcome this issue since they would probably not be doing all the work that Brad has done in terms of medical tests at a reproductive specialist.

Edgewood

I only have my n=1, but so far, Sachi has had pretty regular heats, almost like clockwork.

She got her first heat a year ago last August 2010 (~8 mo old, it lasted 3 1/2 wks total from start to end), then she got her next heat in January 2011, again about 3 weeks. Then another one in August of 2011, again for 3 weeks or so. And funny thing is, it always seems to start at about the 6-10th day of the month (ie, Jan 7th, August 6th)? Of course they are regular in that they have so far occurred in the same months, but irregular the distance between the heats in terms of months (4 vs 6 months).

Calia

@Nekopan - I know that it is the ovaries that control it, my thought is the fact that since females (both human and dog) can be affect by each others hormone changes, that the possibility of enough of the hormones coming from the environment (ie other females) could cause her uterus to kick in. I remember reading to avoid progesterone with a dog who had a ovariectomy.

BradA1878

For sure Loa's cysts are more indicative of a repro problem than split heats, tho I was informed by 2 repro specialists that her cysts were due to empty heats and were not always a hereditary issue.

The split heat thing is a little controversial, some repro specialists do not believe split heats happen after sexual maturity and that anything that seems like a split heat is actually an irregular, and potentially problematic, heat cycle.

But, my point was not to have a discussion specifically on split heats, I brought them up as an example of the volatility that appears to be common in the esters cycle of the Shikoku. The volatility, not the split heats, is what troubles me.

I have read that ovarian cysts can cause females to not ovulate. So, for sure that could have been the issue with Loa. But I wonder if that is what we are seeing in other females. And the info that Corina gave about Katja's females makes me think that that is the case - cysts, perhaps, seems to be an issue in the breed - and could be the reason for the abnormal esters cycles.

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isitizzy

when i went over tho the shikoku's in holland and we asked for a puppy, we waited a few months till we got news,
then there was a female shikoku that normally was going to have a heat, it started ,but suddenly it was split..

the owner said that something like that was normal, that i does happen.. and that they can postpone it, when it's too cold to be pregnant,the owner said that that was completely normal, because that is the way they do it in the wild..
and it's because it's a breed that is still very close to nature.. and it also can be that there are other females in the pack that want to go first, another female can postpone her heat because of that..

she explained also that shikoku females don't mate with a male that she doesn't want..

BradA1878

If that were the case, and the Shikoku was so close to the it's wild counterparts, then why don't they come into season only once a year, or every 9 months? If anything, Shikoku come into season more often than every 6 months! ....

ETA - Moved my rant to a new thread.

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ShikokuSpirit

@isitizzy - That is an interesting explaination, I'll take you up on that. So, does this mean that she has had successful breedings on split heat cycles with her females?

cmpteki

I can't speak from the beginning, as Kimi has only been with us for 15 months; however, in that time... October 2010, Split Heat, ~5weeks spacing, Failed breed attempt at first part of the split, guessing the 'true' heat cycle was the second part. May 2011, Normal Heat, Successful Breeding. October 2011, Heat Cycle...Normal or Split? Time will tell...

isitizzy

@ shikokuspirit, yes she had succesful breedings with split heats..