Kai escape-proof fencing?

Brego_mellon_nin

Hi guys,
I've seen a few videos of kais escaping their enclosure (Brad's Haru amongst others) and they seem to very gifted at this, if they feel the need to learn. So my question is, what do you consider as escape proof fencing? Ofcourse it depends on the individual kai, but well, I guess a 4 foot fence is not gonna be enough.
If it's chainlink, could they climb it nomatter how tall?

What would you recommend?

Do you think it would be wise to bury it like a foot or 2 into the ground? To prevent digging out?

Any fence related advise, I'll appreciate it.

kaikenone

they can climb 6 foot for sure.. and any corners,so yes they may be able to climb any height.... and open gates and rip through and go under... very ingenious dogs. oh and they seem to like to climb the gate, honestly I think they watch us go out the gate so they figure thats the way out Rocky has always been an escape artist and being 12 has not slowed him down any. He used to sit in front of the 4 foot gate and look at it and I beleive he was sizing it up and then he would back up and run forward and stop and sit and look at it again and then repeat the process about 3 times and then sail over... he was about 6 months at that time. Now he remains on a runner unless I am standing there, and so far no crates hold him when he wants out, he has even bent the bars on the puppy pens I have. But fortunately no everyone climbs or gets out

Brego_mellon_nin

Wow, sounds bad! So I need like elephant proof iron fence with "roof" and bottom, and then it MIGHT be kai-proof? XD Haha...

brittk

Kaiya can jump a 4' with hardly any effort it seems. She hasnt tried anything higher than that, nor has she attempted to climb any that I have ever seen. she also does like to dig, but usually only if there is already a little hole dug up.

Calia

Something I have heard used for dogs that are escape artists is something called Coyote Rollers: http://www.coyoteroller.com/coyote_roller

Basically, it involves some sort of pipe or tube, at the top of the fence line, that is free spinning. You can also get a similar effect with PVC pipes, wire, and barbed wire brackets.

Brego_mellon_nin

@Calia
That might help thanks, but it's getting very laborous this fence thing. Guess I better start saving up money for the fence instead of for the dog. Haha...

I mean I might get a kai that is not going to escape, but if I do and I didn't put up a good fence, the poor thing could very well be hit by a car or just run away. Denmark is quite crowded, so being "in the middle of nowhere" is virtually impossible... There will always be roads and nabours close by.

Calia

@Brego_mellon_nin - LoL, fencing can get expensive, I'm still saving up money so we can expand the fencing for our dog area.

You may want to also get advice and check out info for handling the more common escape artist breeds, such as the shiba inu and siberian husky. There may be a breeder of these breeds that can give pointers that none of us ever thought of, as well as possibly show you ways to do it more affordably in your area.

ayk

Stringing electrified wire at the base for digging and at the top for jumping is what oldtimers do. This is an inexpensive fix.

Brego_mellon_nin

@Calia
Yeah asking people here in Denmark is a very good idea too I know the kai breeder here in Denmark doesn't have particularly tall fences, but I haven't heard of her kais ever escaping... Loads of shiba folks though, they might have some great ideas.

@ayk
Yeah that would be very effective, but I'm a little scared that the dog will be afraid of the fence, or even the whole yard, after the first encounter. And I'd feel SO bad the first days the pup had to walk near the fence.

ayk

I think it may depend on the dog whether the first shock from the electric fence will affect them that much or not. For the Jindos I know, it's very effective in creating a respect for the fence line without tramatizing them.

For smaller enclosures like kennel runs, I would have a concrete pad and rest an 8-gauge welded wire kennel with a cover.

In the following pic, I would subsitute the cover with a solid cover to create shade/protection from the elements as well as prevent escapes through the top.

Brego_mellon_nin

@ayk
Yes the picture you show is how I'd like to do a small kennel, but when I'm talking about my entire yard that would be VERY expensive

With the kai skittishness I dunno, but I can easily imagine they'd get quite traumatized by electric shock. I might be wrong though (and as always depends on the individual).

Does any kai owners have experience with kai and electricity? @MirkaM @brada1878 @tjbart17 @hondru @dlroberts

PoetikDragon

We have too much fence line (about 390 linear feet) to afford modifying or replacing it in this economy. Our neighbor paid roughly $150/ft to replace the wall adjoining our properties. I'm glad I don't have escape artists.

I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide to go with!

Brego_mellon_nin

Thanks @poeticdragon I hope to have at least a medium size yard for my future dog, but as I do not yet have my own place, it's hypothetical questions. Though as I wish to have big yard I will also need lots of fencelength...

ttddinh

I don't have any kais but I am finding out that my WSL is quite the escape artist (and I supposedly got the docile, non-escape artist one). In areas where you get chain link (get the 8-10 feet one), build a trench (does not even need to be that deep, you could rent a machine from Home depot that basically allows you to build shallow trenches, the one that people use for sprinkler systems), and start building your own chainlink, but rest the bottom into the trench, then pour concrete into the trench. Like a concrete moat. When we put in our chainlink (we did everything by ourselves because we put all our money into the house), we didn't do this and with Kilbe, we totally regret it. We (well, the hub) had to reinforce the chain link by removing it and building a trench, then a wall, then put the chain link in front of that. Thank god it was only a small section that needed reinforcing. We don't put anything on the top, she hasn't learned to climb.

kaikenone

HA HA HA ROFL.... yes that is the way I feel when it comes to Rocky...sorry didnt mean to scare you, not all are escape artists, in fact most of mine are not, however Rocky comes form a long line of them...maybe its genetic.

I have used the electric wire a about chest high and about 6 inches inside off of the fence. This keeps them from getting to close to the fence and getting a chance to stay... what is that law " a Body in Motion stays in Motion" I try to prevent the motion for starting...

I have not had a problem with anyone being tramatized by it that i can tell. I dont make a big fuss about it so I dont think they associate it with anything except getting to close to the fence, in fact it has not been on in about 4 years and they have decided the yellow insulators would make great chew toys over the past summer.

Brego_mellon_nin

@kaikenone
Thanks Marsha, great to know it doesn't necessarily cause them any trauma. It is by FAR the easiest solution to this. At least from the options I have here...

tjbart17

@Brego_mellon_nin Yes an electric fence would traumatize Koda and Mei. Mei's a tough cookie, but I think she would never step foot in the backyard again.

A kennel would mean two howling Kais all day long. No bueno for the neighbors.

Koda is not an escape artist, but his mom is. It's funny to hear what Roberta and Steve have done to make sure that Jojo doesn't go both under and over the fences. Koda's pretty content to just be with his family and go out when we do.

Mei on the other hand! Phew that child drives me nuts sometimes. Honestly nothing keeps Mei in, not even a nine foot fence. Luckily my parents live in a really safe area in a gated community that has 18 miles of rolling hills right across the street. I can't lie, she gets out and runs around hunting when she can't find anything in my parent's backyard or their neighbor's yards.

I think it's sufficient to get a good 6 foot fence and then change things around as you need to. I wouldn't freak out about all the what ifs when they may not even happen.

I would not use a chain link fence though. That is the one thing that both dogs seem to like to climb for fun. It's too easy to climb it like a ladder.

MirkaM

No electricity to ANY DOG in our family! At home we have about 2 meters high fence and it is buried to ground about 30 cm deep. Nuuk has tried to escape from there by digging (no succes yet) and Ife once tried climbing but dropped and never tried it again. Well, Nuuk likes digging so I can't tell that is he trying to escape or not. The cage looks like ploughed potato patch after Nuuk has spend day in there and he also do the snow clearing there . So far I have been able to leave them there for many hours and they haven't escaped. They like to be there and I think they don't have need to escape from there.

Brego_mellon_nin

@tjbart17
What type of fence do you have for Koda then?
And what do you do with him when you're not home, if he is not in a kennel?

The reason I am kinda worrying about the what ifs is that we don't exactly have several acres of empty land next door, it could be dangerous for the dog.

@MirkaM
I don't like electricity either. That will be like a last option!

tjbart17

6 foot redwood fence. Koda just stays inside with a doggie door when I'm not home. Koda's a very good boy though. I've always been able to trust him.

I wouldn't say Mei is safe up on the hills. There are boar, cougars, coyotes, snakes, etc. But you know she is who she is, and hunting is something she has to do to stay sane. There's really no stopping her........

Brego_mellon_nin

I know, it's the line between keeping them safe and allowing them to be dogs. I'd just have a nervous breakdown whenever my dog was missing. Can't imagine how your parents deal with that. Phew!

ttddinh

@tjbart17-- Does Mei come back or does she go off and your parents have to find her?

BradA1878

There are a lot of threads on the forum about our fence, so I'll spare the details on it in yet another thread...

All I want to add to this thread is that I don't find our Kai to be escape artists or roamers. Only one of our Kai has escaped the fence, Kumi, and when she did she just came to the front door. She escaped via a small gap under the front gate - I put a cinder block there and it's never happened again.

I think if you give them enough to do, and enough area to do it in, they don't get bored, and so they don't want to escape.

We've had a much harder time keeping Luytiy (Ovcharka) in our yard than any of our Kai Ken. For us, if the Kai were to escape our yard, IMHO it would be via digging and not climbing. I have yet to see any of our Kai try to climb our 6-7 foot fence, and certainly not our 8-10 foot fence sections.

Haru was kept at Shigeru's ( @TheWalrus ) place with little fencing and never ran away...

I've noticed a lot of the older Kai Ken lines in NA are high(er)-flight dogs, but I have not seen that to be the case in the newly imported lines. Sure, if they are put in a completely foreign environment (Mochi, Taka...), and then threatened, they will bolt, but doesn't mean they'll behave like that in their own home.

----

TheWalrus

Yup, Haru was definitely never a runner, but to add to the electric discussion, I do have to teach all my pups to respect electric fencing. There's a lot of it around fields to stop wild animals. They've all had at least one experience with it, and none of them is scarred for life or anything. I just tell them to stay away from it the first time they get close, but it's almost better if they don't listen and get shocked. Even Haru hit a fence once, wasn't happy about it, but she got over it, and never touched a fence again.

tjbart17

@ttddinh Mei comes home by herself. She's not trying to runaway but have a little fun hunting.

Mei is unusual though. She was tied up by a chain for the first 15 months of her life. She likes to run free. Koda who is always off leash doesn't run.

kaikenone

oh let me add that I have 2 acres that are fenced, so it is quite large and their is no way they can accidentally touch the fence, they have enough area that dont need to go by it.So its not like they can accidentally touch it no matter which way they turn.

Oh and most of the dogs arent really runners, they just think they are big hunters

Brego_mellon_nin

@brada1878
Okay I just saw a video of Haru jumping/climbing out of the enclosure where she was with her first litter, but ofcourse she didn't run, she came straight to the house... Maybe I'm worrying too much.

Oh and on the electric fence discussion, I maybe should have added, that like Shigeru says, there are electric fences all over, very much so in Denmark, so whether I put it in my yard or not, the pup is likely to get shocked anyways at one point during its life. From what I've seen/heard it seems that in USA quite a few use iron fences to keep their livestock in, but in Denmark it's 95 % electric fencing. They are almost everywhere...

BradA1878

@Brego_mellon_nin - We had trained Haru to do that, so she could come-and-go from her pup's area. Also, that was a 4' farm gate, nothing amazing about her jumping it. She also jumped *under* the farm gate top bar, which means she was jumping only 3' high. Kona, Luytiy, Nio, Akashi, Haru, Ayu, and Kodi all jump those gates regularly. They aren't much as far as containment goes.

CrimsonO2

@brada1878 Wait a minute...didn't you have video of a kai getting stuck climbing up and trying to squeeze through a a hole in the fence? :-)

Jesse

Brego_mellon_nin

@brada1878
What is the ' measurement? Foot, hand, inch?

It seemed pretty tall the one I saw a video of...

BradA1878

@CrimsonO2 - That was ChoCho (Shikoku)!

@Brego_mellon_nin - ' = feet, " = inches.