Truths about living with intact male dogs?
http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/does-your-dog-have-sex-factor
I recently read this article over on Dog Star Daily, and I wonder from those of you who have intact males, how much of the behavior described is common or intense? especially in a multidog, companion home. It doesnt sound like much fun to have to intensely manage a dog like that, but the author indicates this is only temporary till his dog grows out of adolescence and into the age where his owner is ready to neuter him.
Have you found it frequently/occasionally true that: "Un-castrated males often smell threatening to other adult males" resulting in conflict, stress or discomfort?
What's the hype and what's the straight dope in this article?
I recently read this article over on Dog Star Daily, and I wonder from those of you who have intact males, how much of the behavior described is common or intense? especially in a multidog, companion home. It doesnt sound like much fun to have to intensely manage a dog like that, but the author indicates this is only temporary till his dog grows out of adolescence and into the age where his owner is ready to neuter him.
Have you found it frequently/occasionally true that: "Un-castrated males often smell threatening to other adult males" resulting in conflict, stress or discomfort?
What's the hype and what's the straight dope in this article?
Comments
Oskar has never humped anyone or anything, before or after being neutered. His interest in other dogs has intensified as he has gotten older (and did not go down with neutering, and he was neutered at a little over a year old, btw). But he is an Akita, so I expect that, though I'm happy to say his interactions with other dogs is not bad--he's interested, and waits to see what will happen, and isn't reactive.
He was a bit of a pain as an adolescence, in like most adolescent dogs, he decided he couldn't hear us at all! And he started pulling on the leash like crazy when he'd always been good before. But in retrospect, his adolescence was very smooth and mild comparatively.
And he was by far the easiest of my dogs to manage, even when he was in the full throes of intact male adolescence. But that's a breed difference, I think: the lone AA in the household of difficult Shibas.
So for me? It wasn't a big deal at all. I didn't like the pee licking (and Bel got pretty tired of being followed around while he waited for her to pee), but it was pretty mild overall.
As for reactiveness, I have not noticed any increase in other dogs treating him differently except perhaps for the fact that he is no longer a "little pup," and allow him to get away with less. Perhaps a few unprovoked reactions to Argos have occurred, but I honestly cannot say if that is a personal factor for the other dog or the fact that Argos is intact. He plays fine/is content to be around neutered dogs, and I feel the majority of neutered dogs feel the same (at least where we frequent). Argos has, as he has never done before, started to "stick up for himself," which has resulted in a few minor altercations (growling, pinning), which have increasingly better resolved between him and whoever he had a disagreement with. And that's all they've been, disagreements.
Honestly, adolescence with Argos has not been bad, and considering I had two intact males before him who were a complete breeze during their so-called adolescence, that's saying a lot. I think people blow adolescence out of proportion because they can't decide how to manage the behaviour and/or they blow the behaviours themselves out of proportion because they find them "disgusting" or "unbecoming" of their cute pup. At least, that is my opinion and observations, certainly some people do have a very difficult time with their adolescent (as do parents).
If you keep in mind that the end is near (not snipping, but adolescence itself), suddenly what is being done to manage the teenage butt-face (Argos's new nickname) doesn't seem so bad because it is not a never-ending, perpetual thing.
Can't comment on multi-dog households, though.
Other than his weird pee fetish, he humps no more than neutered dogs, I think he got my leg once when he was about 4 mos. Not too crazy about females for some reason- even the ones in heat. He gives them about 15 min of attention and then continues being his antisocial Shiba self. I did notice he loves to bite the backs of females- not sure what that's about. Anyone?
One think I would like to say though, is that neutering doesn't always eliminate a males reaction to a female in heat, and may only just reduce it. Both my boys and my sister's dog were all neutered when they were 6-7 months old and have all shown to react to a female in heat. My sister's dog would constantly drool and pant while following the female as well as guard her and hump everything in sight. My guys were constantly trying to hump Miyu and would lick up her piss like it was candy.
They don't really hump at all. Fate was a psycho humper as young puppy tho.
Evidence: He was still 2 months old here!
Never humped us humans tho. They very rarely & sporadically hump each other, maybe once a month as a part of play / being silly.
None of my boys have met an intact female, with the exception of Wraith once recently. [ of course, excluding puppy Dragoon ] Wraith acted interested, but no more than if it had been another off-leash dog to play with. [ this lab was in-heat, off-leash, & ran a block to get to us to play with Wraith ] He drooled a little, but not ridiculously so. Getting him to keep walking was relatively easy once the lady came & picked up her dog.
Smells...yeah, they want to stop & sniff everything & can be stubborn about moving. However, I don't know if this is because they're intact or not. They've been like this since they were puppies, & Dragoon is the same way. I think it's more of the fact that all three breeds are trackers more than being intact or not. Even out in the field off-leash they're constantly tracking. Particular Wraith [ & Dragoon ] Fate, less so.
Wraith & Fate were my first dogs. Both are still intact. Having never owned a neutered male, I can't tell you if they're any easier. But Wraith & Fate have been real easy to keep, so much so I'm still not sure I ever will neuter Wraith.
Hope that helps!
Teenage deaf ears sounds more like -teenageyness, not intactness to me.
Pee licking would gross me out, that'd pretty much ruin dog kisses for me.
What is the real likelihood of a male dog trying real hard to run off to the faint odor of inheat bitches in town? Not next door but in the vicinity? The Conventional Wisdom is "neutering educes roaming' but really...is it so bad that you can be out hiking and the dog gets a whiff and takes off to locate his date?
AND
If a male has never mated, and has not experienced the Big +Reinforcement- does all this relatively reasonable behavior go out the window once he's mated? How do they change, if at all?
I think this would depend on the dog. Haven't had this problem with my boys yet.
In fact, I just found out literally 5 minutes ago that the people who own the house next door have come down. [ they rent it out year round as a vacation home, & come down from up north about 2x per year to stay in it themselves ] Anyway, these people breed Rotties & always bring their two intact females with them. Neither of my boys have interacted with their rotties as they're a bit protective of their owners.
But anyway, found out they're in heat atm. But, my boys haven't done anything then act the way they always do. Nothing weird going on.
& we're talking central florida cookie-cutter houses with no land. There's literally about 8 feet between our two houses [ if that ]. ~
I think the author of that article is blowing adolescence out of proportion, or at least handling it to an extreme. But maybe that is because I am not really that bothered by Toki's adolescent changes. Infact, I was super excited that Toki raised leg up to pee for the first time; I gave him a treat. So proud of my little man!
A lot of people outside of this forum think that neutering solves their dog's "problems", which, it doesn't often. I think there is another thread for why not and some reasons on this one too.
My issue lies within, what I am guessing, is a fear period Toki is going through in addition to adolescence. While he occasionally humps other dogs, lips stick seldomly comes out, smegmaaaa
Marking... he does this, but not excessively. He just wants to pee 3-4 times on a walk. Same with sniffing. I let him sniff for a few seconds in most instances. He's very good at listening to "Let's go".
"Bitching", haha. I've seen him do it a couple times, but no more than that. He has zero interest in roaming.
Humping and penis crowning... the crowning happens often, especially when he's excited. We're used to it, it's gone from "a little weird" to "kind of cute". He tried to hump me once and got reprimanded, never tried it again. He does love to hump our cat and sometimes tries to hump other dogs, but if they don't put up with it, he stops.
My upstairs neighbour also has an intact dog, and he's just over a year now. He marks a lot and has a tendency to roam. Other than that I would say he's very typical for a lab.
I've got three males, not neutered, CO, Kai and Shiba. About "the big +reinforcement", one of them has been bred and he knows exactly what it's all about. I call him a dead eye male. He can spot an in heat receptive bitch from across a field and mount her before anyone can blink. Almost receptive girls, spays, etc, he doesn't waste his time with, so he is easier to control since only receptive girls interest him. He's a total ladies man and a wonderful pack dog.
The inexperienced males are the ones that waste their time searching, sniffing and fumbling around, humping everything, marking everything much like in the article. All the boys are very direct with the girls, but the young males are rudely direct, as in it harasses the girls to where it starts a fight since they spend a lot of time getting up in their business even which makes them cranky.
Doing performance work with the boys is much more difficult than working with the girls. They will not listen when a bitch in heat is near by, and recalls go out the window, and sometimes the nearest piece of equipment gets spritzed. They would without doubt go off in the woods if they caught a whiff of a receptive bitch, as they believe their only purpose in life is finding bitches AND staying in moms' good graces since they are all mama boys. Sometimes the two are at cross purposes and the bitch locating over rules their desire to please me. This is why I don't hike off leash with the males, and use my girls (who have excellent recall), as a recall for the boys. Idk, I think my Kai boy will be a lot better at listening off lead though, he really wants to stay with the pack no matter what.
The scent marking is much more pronounced compared to their neutered friends, and when I have girls in heat, they do sometimes slip up in the house and douse a plant or doorway or whatever is closest to the girls princess pen with sticky nasty stud pee. Then they get banished outdoors to cry and make irritating noises and starve themselves until the season is over. The only time mine have fought was over a girl, so I go to pains to keep not just the girl seperate, but all of the males as well, so that means seperate potty breaks and kenneling. Everyone's tempers are short around seasoning females.
That said, they spend a lot of time doing this. It's disgusting:
"If a male has never mated, and has not experienced the Big +Reinforcement- does all this relatively reasonable behavior go out the window once he's mated? How do they change, if at all?"
Once the males have "done the deed" they chill a lot and save their energy for the part of the heat were it counts. So, it's the inexperienced and adolescent intact males who, IMHO, are the biggest pain in the butt. However, this is only the case if you have intact girls... without intact girls an intact adolescent is not a big pain.
"Un-castrated males often smell threatening to other adult males"
This is something I've being saying on the forum for years. We really need to socialize our dogs with intact and desexed males and females as puppies so that later, as adults, they are not "freaked out" by a dog (male or female) who smells different to them.
I have noticed desexed dogs being aggressive toward intact dogs more than I have seen intact dogs being aggressive toward desexed dogs. But, again, this isn't a issue if the dogs are socialized with intact and desexed animals.
" It doesnt sound like much fun to have to intensely manage a dog like that, but the author indicates this is only temporary till his dog grows out of adolescence and into the age where his owner is ready to neuter him. "
I agree that the adolescent period if the toughest time for living with an intact male. Gotta keep in mind that the adolescent period can differ depending on the type of dog. For Kodi, for example, he's in it now at 1.5 years, while Kai pass it by 1 year or so.
As for the sniffing pee, marking, humping, redirected (sexual) frustration, and such... yea, it kinda sucks, but it's not all that bad IMHO.
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I think this woman is having to do a lot of management with her adolescent dog, because he is her performance and working dog and is in training for agility and such. I would and do, do the same as her for some of my boys, especially those with whom I will be working with in some type of performance event where focus is important.
Regarding the "penis crowning" I've only seen Oskar do it once, Toby maybe a couple of times (though Toby was neutered quite young), but my early neutered GSD did it ALL the TIME it seemed like! Especially on car rides. Car rides were super exciting, apparently. *lol*
Interesting that the more experienced males are easier to handle around in season bitches. Guess that's not surprise!
I don't own a male right now, but nice to learn..
I do agree with Brad it's important to socialize dogs young to intact and fixed males and females.
Saya has only met two intact males in her life unless there were others I don't check their bits to see or ask owners.. lol
Saya did fine greeting them and male Rusty the new guinea singing dog he is intact she really liked him wanted him to play with her. hehe