I understand they are different dogs originated in different parts of the world for different purposes. I wasn't trying to compare them ,more of whats good and bad about them without comparison. Maybe trying to figure out which of the 2 would make a better home companion
@kimputai nope, I didn't get a message from you . I especially want your thoughts on Tosa .
I don't know much about the CC, I saw a few, but that doesn't mean I know the breed, so I can't give opinions on that. Concerning the Tosa, do you want to have it just as a housepet, do you want to work with them, train them in some kind of sport, or do you want to show or breed in the future. IMO, a Tosa is a very intelligent dog, willing to learn, always pleases the owner, with a huge memory for what has happened in it's life. They don't forget anything. A Tosa, if proper trained, is capable of many things, sometimes you have to stimulate the dog a bit more, they can be stubborn. A Tosa deserves more respect as we give the breed, the breed should get a chance to develope more instead of always being followed by the fighting history. He will be loyal to you his entire life, if you don't let him down, he certainly won't let you down. He gives you his respect, you give him yours, so you will have a perfect dog for the rest of his life. If you want a Tosa as a guard dog, take another breed, like a Rott or a Ojeriza Fila, a Tosa will surely protect you, but it doesn't have the instinct as a real guard dog. Just because he looks impressive, doesn't make it a good guard. If you want a dog that lays on the couch all day and gets a normal 3 times a day walk, take a Lab. I had Rotts, Dobes and other breeds in the past, never met a almost half human dog as a Tosa. Once you had one, you never want another breed.
@Kimputai thank you for taking the time to elaborate in regard to Tosa. If I get one it is going to be a companion ,no showing or anything that you mentioned.Just a dog friend. It will get properly trained for obedience but nothing too fancy . Would you mind tellignme what are differences between a male and female Tosa ,temperament/ease of training as well as health . How do they do with children ?
I own a Cane Corso, Blue. He's from Amore Cane Corso. He's a working dog, not a pet, however he would make a wonderful pet too. He does his job here - he's killed a few Coyote in his work.
The good stuff: He's a good boy, very obedient, pretty clean, protective enough but still friendly to guests. He's great with our daughter, who is 20 months old now.
The bad stuff: He's more vocal than I'd like. He's very strange-dog aggressive. He's VERY handler soft, which makes him easy to control, but drives me a bit nuts when he reacts like I beat him if I so much as move fast in the house (no, I don't beat him at all).
We've owned a few other CCs, all nice dogs. All great pets, all great with kids. Some less aggressive and less soft.
@alban.......no problem. But don't forget, not all dogs are the same. The difference between a male and a female? A female is smaller, not so impressive IMO. During training I find the male walks nicer, he dances more, while a female has higher speed and is faster. Allthough both like attention from family members, a male is more on his own, more relaxed. They do great with children, especially when they grew up with kids, because it's a part of his/hers family. I find a male more confident, he doesn't look for trouble, but when it happens, he will go all the way. A female is more curious, a male just looks what is coming in it's way. I don't know if it's the same with CC or BB males, a Tosa male does focus on dogs and eyeball he doesn't trust. And I mean focus. When the other dog is down, he has to stay down. I personally think a Tosa has other fighting skills as other breeds, they go for the neck and bash the other dog on the ground, he makes funny aikido moves and sweeps the other dogs front paws, so the dog will be on his back in no time. But, as I said earlier, not all dogs are the same.
@alban one example about the Tosa memory and the focus.....a few months back a GSD was walking unleashed in the woods, nervously jumping and barking around my male. No owner in sight, my dog was on leash. He was getting pretty mad........and 10 minutes is a long time to hold a angry dog. Ok, the owner showed up on his bike finally, didn't say anything at all, leashed his dog an drove away. i walked in the wood 600-800 meters, unleashed my dog, he jumped, turned around and went after the GSD...grabbed the dog by his neck, bashed him on the ground, stood over him, growled a bit and returned to me in a very arrogant looking way. he almost had a nasty smile on his face.
@Brad I wasn't being defensive .I guess is the web that always transmits the wrong impressions. I always appreciate your insight and I know you know a whole a lot more then I do .Thanks for describing your relationship with Blu.
@kimputai Thanks for your imput ,I really appreciate it. Tough call though. I haven't seen either dogs in person which makes alot harder. I have come to realize that the breeder ,especially for CC ,will make a huge difference.I have learned also that when it comes to CC it is hard to find an honest breeder.
@Brad I will look up Amore CC . As far as Tosa the Tosa House seems like a pretty honest and good person to deal with . Both breeds have qualities that I am looking for. It is going to be a tough call .
I have been in the Tosa a few years, did research in the breed, met a lot of breeders. Suzanne from Tosa House is one of the few that people trust. She has my respect.
Just a little observational comment but what I'm seeing is that these two breeds may not be the right dog from the comments made earlier about wanting a house pet/companion. IMHO I feel that Alban wants a dog that will be chill at home and stay by his side, go for a walk, do a little obedience training. I really dont think the Tosa or the CC would be that type of dog. I think as magnificent these two breeds are, they come with some type of liability if not cared for properly. I think these two breeds would probably be best kept by people experienced and willing to care for them in a special way where the owner does lots of research and is willing to sacrifice a good deal of time and patience in getting to know the dog.
My honest opinion is that I really think Alban would probably be best suited with a dog breed that is more known to be that type of large lap dog. I feel that Alban doesnt fully understand the time and patience needed for these two special breeds and what it takes to get them to where Kimputai and Brad has their dogs. Again this is just my own opinion from just reading the last few posts so please dont take offense.
@shishinu I do not take any offense ,I am a big guy and I can handle opinions This is a forum , by definition open to and for discussion.
In any case ,I was hoping you would elaborate a bit more on the time and patience needed with either of the dogs . Maybe I am neglecting details I haven't met yet while researching the breeds. I am still on research mode ,far from actually taking in a pup .Insights are more then welcome.
@alban: reason I said that was because these two breeds still have a high working drive (again just my opinion) and they seem to need more then what you described in your post about what you would like to do with a dog. I think many people get into the idea that it would be great to have a rare breed and be able to keep a breed such as these two with just basic dog care until they find out that the breed is more then what they asked for.
I don't know your dog experience so forgive me but I agree with Kimputai that you might want to start out with a breed or a dog that is much suited to what you described. I also don't think the size of the person matters on the size of the they get. I know a number of people with less then average build have large dogs and a few people who looks like giants with small dogs.
"I also don't think the size of the person matters on the size of the [dog] they get. I know a number of people with less then average build have large dogs and a few people who looks like giants with small dogs."
I would have to agree, a human's size doesn't always impact the ability to handle a dog. For example, my fiance is bigger and stronger than me but when a squirrel/cat crosses Tikaani's (husky) path, my fiance has a harder time handling the fervent pulling of a prey driven sled dog than I do. Combined my dogs outweigh me and I can handle walking all of them at once without assistance (sometimes canicross style), but my fiance struggles with just Tikaani.
Agreed. My husband is bigger and heavier than me. I can put three Akitas on leash together (Gryphon, Gojira, and Ghidora - we jokingly call this "forming Cerberus") and handle them well enough. I don't get pulled off my feet; the biggest problem is keeping them from doing a two-one split on both sides of me. He can't even keep one dog under control on a walk, except Ghidora who hangs his head and drags his feet... our little Eyeore.
@alban - Blue is a very dog aggressive dog. So he had some different types of training, including a B.A.T. session and a C.A.T. session. Also, he went to puppy class (until he was kicked out for being too aggressive), then we did several obedience classes, some PP Sports training, and 100s of hours of socialization classes. Blue is a very high-drive CC, with a lot of natural animal aggression in him. He's also protective and weary of strangers, but kind to friendly strangers. All this makes him a bit of a nightmare to walk in public at times... but, he is a CC, so he listens very well and is super obedient.
@shishiinu you made a good point. Sorry for not answering earlier. @Alban concerning a Tosa, may I ask where do you live? In a city, in the country? I must say, a not proper trained and socialised Tosa isn't the type of dog that you can take to a park or beach where other dogs run unleashed. There will be trouble. If you live in a crowded place, my best advice to you is over-socialize your pup, more as any other breed. Try to read the dog......My personal experience is, that you really don't see when a Tosa is getting really mad, they don't bark, growl or take some positions that other dogs may have. Not even when he is challenged, all of a sudden he is gone, and believe me, a Tosa will go all the way to win. Of course dogs in the West are different as in Japan, most dogs don't even have Japanese blood in them anymore.
@kimputai. I am very aware of the nature of Tosa. I do live in the city although not downtown. Not sure what would qualify as a crowded place . New York crowded? I do understand Tosa needs plenty of socialisation more so then other breeds. A do plan on doing so as well as proper training. That was never optional but a must. I do understand dog park will not be for a Tosa. Maybe as a pupy but thats about it. I do not like dog parks anyway.Too many untrained spoiled dogs. One question would be , can Tosa be trained to walk on leash ? Pay attention to me instead of the passing dog ?
@alban....you mean off leash? When my Tosa was young, he had some arguments with other dogs. One JR came out of the bushes (no owner in sight) and did bite him in his eye for no reason. He was 12 weeks old when that happened. We saw the dog a few times a week while my dog was growing older....When he was 16 months, he met the dog again, he chased the dog half the block till he got him. Same thing happened with a Border Collie, a brown one. Now my dog is 8 years old, take 9 Border collies with black in their coat, and one brown one, let them all sit next to each other, he will look at the 9 black ones, pass them, but he will go after the brown one. My dogs are well trained (I guess) I can let them unleashed in my hometown, but I have to be very foccussed what comes in our way. May I ask what dogs you had in the past?
I have a mixed Dutchie,male. No , I mean on leash walk. Will the Tosa lunge to every passing dog ? Will I be able to control somewhat the situation with a command ?
Any dog can be taught to walk on a leash. I'm kind of puzzled by that question. And any dog (who is reactive) may lunge at other dogs. But even reactive dogs can be taught by not do that.
@alban...........the dog you have, is that a male or a female and what would be your choice of Tosa? IMO, Tosa's are very impressed by the tone of his/hers owners voice. That's why it's so important to over-socialize your Tosa. He will notice the state that you are in in certain situations, and will respond to that.
@alban here is a video of what I do with my dogs in the weekend. Plus the female rides next to the bike 6 km daily. I think I have my dogs under control, but at 2.00 min. they see a rabbit and they are off. Just to let you know, a Tosa really means a lot of work.......
Comments
@kimputai nope, I didn't get a message from you . I especially want your thoughts on Tosa .
Cheers ,
A.
IMO, a Tosa is a very intelligent dog, willing to learn, always pleases the owner, with a huge memory for what has happened in it's life. They don't forget anything. A Tosa, if proper trained, is capable of many things, sometimes you have to stimulate the dog a bit more, they can be stubborn. A Tosa deserves more respect as we give the breed, the breed should get a chance to develope more instead of always being followed by the fighting history. He will be loyal to you his entire life, if you don't let him down, he certainly won't let you down. He gives you his respect, you give him yours, so you will have a perfect dog for the rest of his life.
If you want a Tosa as a guard dog, take another breed, like a Rott or a Ojeriza Fila, a Tosa will surely protect you, but it doesn't have the instinct as a real guard dog. Just because he looks impressive, doesn't make it a good guard. If you want a dog that lays on the couch all day and gets a normal 3 times a day walk, take a Lab.
I had Rotts, Dobes and other breeds in the past, never met a almost half human dog as a Tosa. Once you had one, you never want another breed.
How do they do with children ?
Thanks again
A.
I own a Cane Corso, Blue. He's from Amore Cane Corso. He's a working dog, not a pet, however he would make a wonderful pet too. He does his job here - he's killed a few Coyote in his work.
The good stuff: He's a good boy, very obedient, pretty clean, protective enough but still friendly to guests. He's great with our daughter, who is 20 months old now.
The bad stuff: He's more vocal than I'd like. He's very strange-dog aggressive. He's VERY handler soft, which makes him easy to control, but drives me a bit nuts when he reacts like I beat him if I so much as move fast in the house (no, I don't beat him at all).
We've owned a few other CCs, all nice dogs. All great pets, all great with kids. Some less aggressive and less soft.
I hope this helps.
----
I don't know if it's the same with CC or BB males, a Tosa male does focus on dogs and eyeball he doesn't trust. And I mean focus. When the other dog is down, he has to stay down. I personally think a Tosa has other fighting skills as other breeds, they go for the neck and bash the other dog on the ground, he makes funny aikido moves and sweeps the other dogs front paws, so the dog will be on his back in no time.
But, as I said earlier, not all dogs are the same.
He was getting pretty mad........and 10 minutes is a long time to hold a angry dog. Ok, the owner showed up on his bike finally, didn't say anything at all, leashed his dog an drove away. i walked in the wood 600-800 meters, unleashed my dog, he jumped, turned around and went after the GSD...grabbed the dog by his neck, bashed him on the ground, stood over him, growled a bit and returned to me in a very arrogant looking way. he almost had a nasty smile on his face.
@kimputai Thanks for your imput ,I really appreciate it. Tough call though. I haven't seen either dogs in person which makes alot harder. I have come to realize that the breeder ,especially for CC ,will make a huge difference.I have learned also that when it comes to CC it is hard to find an honest breeder.
@Brad I will look up Amore CC . As far as Tosa the Tosa House seems like a pretty honest and good person to deal with . Both breeds have qualities that I am looking for. It is going to be a tough call .
My honest opinion is that I really think Alban would probably be best suited with a dog breed that is more known to be that type of large lap dog. I feel that Alban doesnt fully understand the time and patience needed for these two special breeds and what it takes to get them to where Kimputai and Brad has their dogs. Again this is just my own opinion from just reading the last few posts so please dont take offense.
In any case ,I was hoping you would elaborate a bit more on the time and patience needed with either of the dogs . Maybe I am neglecting details I haven't met yet while researching the breeds. I am still on research mode ,far from actually taking in a pup .Insights are more then welcome.
I don't know your dog experience so forgive me but I agree with Kimputai that you might want to start out with a breed or a dog that is much suited to what you described. I also don't think the size of the person matters on the size of the they get. I know a number of people with less then average build have large dogs and a few people who looks like giants with small dogs.
I
I would have to agree, a human's size doesn't always impact the ability to handle a dog. For example, my fiance is bigger and stronger than me but when a squirrel/cat crosses Tikaani's (husky) path, my fiance has a harder time handling the fervent pulling of a prey driven sled dog than I do. Combined my dogs outweigh me and I can handle walking all of them at once without assistance (sometimes canicross style), but my fiance struggles with just Tikaani.
@Alban concerning a Tosa, may I ask where do you live? In a city, in the country?
I must say, a not proper trained and socialised Tosa isn't the type of dog that you can take to a park or beach where other dogs run unleashed. There will be trouble. If you live in a crowded place, my best advice to you is over-socialize your pup, more as any other breed. Try to read the dog......My personal experience is, that you really don't see when a Tosa is getting really mad, they don't bark, growl or take some positions that other dogs may have. Not even when he is challenged, all of a sudden he is gone, and believe me, a Tosa will go all the way to win. Of course dogs in the West are different as in Japan, most dogs don't even have Japanese blood in them anymore.
Same thing happened with a Border Collie, a brown one. Now my dog is 8 years old, take 9 Border collies with black in their coat, and one brown one, let them all sit next to each other, he will look at the 9 black ones, pass them, but he will go after the brown one.
My dogs are well trained (I guess) I can let them unleashed in my hometown, but I have to be very foccussed what comes in our way.
May I ask what dogs you had in the past?
A.
IMO, Tosa's are very impressed by the tone of his/hers owners voice. That's why it's so important to over-socialize your Tosa. He will notice the state that you are in in certain situations, and will respond to that.