Replacement/Health Guarantees

toefew

I believe I found a good breeder of Kai Ken and I appreciate their honesty. Is it reasonable to ask for some form of replacement/health guarantee if a dog has been identified as having a heart murmur or hernia?

lindsayt

Absolutely, but I wouldn't knowingly buy a dog with a murmur or a hernia. Both are detectable before 8 weeks. Otherwise it depends on what you are comfortable with. I do believe it is wise to ask for one in writing (in the US). I have dogs with and without written contracts, and I prefer a written contract now after having registration and health issues with some of the dogs. To be fair, I was fully aware going into those purchases the possible results of not having anything in writing. I have long contracts going over all scenarios with my Shiba mentor, including replacement, and I expected that as an option going into the purchase. If the breeder absolutely refuses to draft something, buy from someone whom you trust to stand behind what they produce, who can offer you some better customer service.

lindsayt

I am not sure I am totally comfortable with the term "health guarantee" as time goes by. I am beginning to prefer "health warrenty" instead, or "health assurance". A person can guarantee a replacement, healthy tested parents, and that the puppy is healthy at time of sale and should expect a reasonably healthy life, but to me, "warrenty" better represents more realistically what I would want if something goes wrong, in that I would have the option to exchange or return. I mean, I think it's misleading for someone to be offered a "guarantee" that isn't truely a guarantee. I mean, a dog who develops osteoarthritis at 12 years old isn't the result of bad care from the breeder, so I am not going to go knocking on my breeders door asking for them to pay for pain meds saying "but you said lifetime guarantee".

toefew

I agree, I appreciate your feedback. I'm not asking for anything crazy. If you can recommend a breeder shiba/Kai/etc. something in the Japanese family, we simply want that great personality, independence and quirkiness that we had in our home when we had our Shiba. I just didn't realize how overwhelming it would be to simply try to find a healthy dog. Ultimately I would like to have a retired show dog and a pup. I believe gradually getting two would take some of the pressure off of my 10 year old beagle, who is a gem! He has been without a companion now since January and I think he's ready for some action in his new home and needs someone to walk along with him in the woods.

brittk

I knowingly got a dog with a murmur who had two healthy parents and no siblings with any issue. She simply grew too fast and wound up with a little hole in heart. That said, I met her and the breeder before I made any decisions and talked to our breeder at length about possible causes for her murmur. We had a modified contract with our breeder taking into consideration her heart. I dont think it would be appropriate to ask for a repalcement puppy for conditions related to an issue you knew about prior to purchase, but anything new should be accounted for.
Nevertheless, I wouldn't change my pup for the world. She's the apple of my eye!

lindsayt

I also don't mean to knock any dogs with those conditions. If there's full disclosure up front, and you are just looking for a pet, they can make fine healthy companions in the end (may need some surgery) but myself personally, I'm looking for breeding dogs, so that's why I said I would personally pass on that.

Feel free to email me, I know some good breeders of both breeds
masakadoshiba@hotmail.com

I would recomend a puppy Kai vs a retired kennel dog, since they do bond very strongly as puppies and you will want to get the socializing off to a strong start as early as possible, and I would definately recomend a retired Shiba (from a reputable breeder.)

Saya

Hi jinx shiba inu is my next choice if I get another shiba I seen retired show dogs on their site from time to time too. I met her in person and her dogs are really nice.

I'm sure Lindsayt has some good suggestions on shiba inu and kai breeders.

Ask any questions to the breeder you think is good to ask best to get to know the breeder and learn about them.

shibamistress

In almost all cases, I would prefer a contract with health issues and potential problems lined out. (If I knew someone very well and trusted them, that would be a case when I would not feel the necessity to have that). In the case the dog had a health issue already, I would very much want to have all possible scenarios clear. Some things to think about: are you paying less for the dog because of the health issue? If the health issue gets worse, are you or the breeder responsible for those vet bills? (I'm sure it would mostly be the buyer, but since I don't really know how that would work, I'd want to ask) What happens if--worst case--the puppy dies or must be euthanized because of this problem? I would want to know all those things. Most of this is communication, though. Just be up front on what you're nervous about and a good breeder will help answer your questions.

As for heart murmurs, they can and cannot be serious things. If you're not breeding (so it won't be passed on) it may not be a big deal. My best friend has a very healthy and wonderful GSD who is 8 years old. When she got him, from a very good breeder, he had a heart murmur. The breeder was very up front about it, and offered a replacement pup right away, but also noted that often they resolve on their own, and in this case, a month later, there was no trace of it, and he has had no problems since. The breeder had also refunded a small portion of the purchase price, which we thought was really above and beyond, because the murmur was found in a routine vet check, and was not expensive (the breeder's vet had not detected it). anyway, her dog has never had any problems in his health at all since then!

Also, you might note that it can take a long time to find a good breeder, esp. of Shibas if you go that route. Check out the tips on the Shiba side for finding a good breeder. And you may have to wait to get your dog.

tjbart17

@toefew Are you talking about getting one of Marsha's pups? Or Stacey? I can vouge for Tora's health. lol. Just be up front with Marsha and tell her what you want. She will tell you whether or not she will do it. From what I've always experienced with her, she's a very honest person. Be straight forward.

All in all, I haven't heard anyone say her dogs have had health issues. And I know that Koda's line doesn't have any heart murmurs or hernias. Hips and knees are all good as well.

kaikenone

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ayk

I'm even more confused. Is John a rescue dog? It's kind of weird to hear of an "adoption" for a pup from a breeder.

kaikenone

@ayk- no he is not a rescue.. he was bred and born here, I use the term adoption because he is not being sold but rather placed into a home with either no cost or minimal cost to the new owner. I suppose I could use the term PLACED instead. I just always considered any dog not being sold outright as an adoption, I guess for lack of a better term.

kaikenone

might have over reacted to the orginal post just a teeny tiny bit... my apologies.