small silly questions

jellyfish

As a forewarning, these *might* be a silly questions, but seeing as this is my first dog, forgive me :P

-Are puppies more obsessed with food than adult dogs?
-At what age doe puppies stop being puppy-like and start acting like their adult-selves? Specifically an akita... cause i got one of those things




In the last few weeks, Toki has grown tired of his Taste Of the Wild, even when I switched flavors. He seems to want to eat other kibble brands, like Bill Jacks and Blue Buffalo, which I am feeding him blue buffalo now.
But still, he doesn't scarf down his kibble like he used to. Is this because he demands junk food treats over kibble, or could it just simply be his desire for kibble changing with age?

Which leads me to my next question, when did you puppy stop acting puppy like and start acting adult like? Having Toki being my first dog, I don't really know the answer, but I feel like he has been an adult for a while now. I don't really regard him as a puppy anymore, but i don't really know how to explain it. He still plays in puddles and plays with his toys, but i still see him as an adult and not a puppy?

Yandharr

Well, I don't have an Akita, but Saru's taste and demeanor changed at about 2 yrs 3 mos. He eats as if he knows his food will always be there, he is also more in tune with me and so less jumpy when something out of the ordinary happens. Sound familiar at all? By contrast, Ciqala acts as if the fate of the universe is in peril and it is her duty to save it by eating, or running, or barking. basically whatever verb she happens to be doing at the time, she does it with her whole being + some. I think its a matter of maturity more than taste IMO.

Calia

As puppies get older, they won't need to eat as much with their growth slowing down. With that said, I would also pose the following question to you. Would you be satisfied eating the same kind of cereal every day for the rest of your life?

With my pups, I rotate the flavors and brands throughout the year, as well as mix in or substitute other foods with each meal. Not only does this keep things interesting for them, it also keeps them used to eating different things thus reducing reactions (vomit, runs) should they accidentally eat something they don't normally eat. Generally, I'll stick with a brand for 3-6 months, giving them a different flavor of that brand each month. Then with every few meals, I'll mix in something else like veggies, canned food, cooked meats, or canned fish. And every other dinner is substituted with some sort of raw meal, usually chicken parts.


As far as when they start acting like adults, not too sure about akitas, but most dog breeds are considered adults at age 3. Usually, they calm down or mature around then, but I have yet to see that with my husky boy and he's almost 4yrs old. Some dogs will keep a puppy demeanor up to their senior years (dogs are usually considered seniors at 9yrs), so not all dogs will mentally mature at the same rate.

jellyfish

So, then how would one describe a "mature" dog?

Toki is the chillest dog i've ever met. He isn't a couch potato, per say, but he is a pretty calm little dude, even for a puppy when he was smaller.

When I took him to the vet at around 5-6 months of age and Toki sat by the chair, not showing interest in the vet when she called him to her. The vet was surprised at how uninquisitive and reserved he was. I told her that he doesn't show attention to strangers. She said, "all akita puppies his age come in wanting attention and are curious about everything, I am a little concerned of him being so self reserved". No... my dog is rather indifferent to you simply because he doesn't know you. After the vet's visit, I wondered how exactly a puppy is "supposed" to act, or, more like, when they stop acting like puppies. I like Toki exactly the way he is, so I'm just asking for shits and giggles

@calia I would totally eat the same cereal if it was captain crunch
But yea, I just realized this: that dogs get tired of the same foods. I had cats all my life who were content with eating the same stuff every day, so I guess it never occurred to me until a week ago? In retrospect, it seems rather stupid I didn't think of it beforehand, ha.

PoetikDragon

All of my puppies I have cared for (Gojira, Ghidora, and Tachi for the short time I had him) have acted like they were starving every time I fed them. By the time I trained them manners they have also matured enough not to be so crazy. Ghidora, being a boy, still gets all worked up about meal time barking and wiggling and woo-wooing when waits, but doesn't act starved. But all my girls (Goji, Gryphon, Mosura) have a finicky and passing interest in breakfast. They do the ritual because that's what we've always done, but once I give the "okay!" they might take a few bites and then wander off. Never had any problem getting them to scarf down canned food, however.

PoetikDragon

Oh by the way, whenever my dogs stopped eating and I tried changing brands, it only worked as long as it was novel. And every time the food would change their poops would get very loose, sometimes explosively so. By the time they became normal, the dog was refusing to eat the new brand the same as the old brand. So I pretty much gave up on our finicky eaters and just decided to stick with what had the best nutrional value, hoping quality would win out over quantity. I just can't deal with constantly changing brands and a never ending deluge of diarrhea.

jellyfish

I feel you on the diarrhea. Toki always got upset stomachs when I changed his food when he was younger. Though, I changed it too fast, so I'm sure that had a big something to do with it. I'm already starting to noticed the random cloud of rancid fart....blue buffalo is not looking promising. Well see what his poop look like.

He doesn't spazz out over food anymore, but he will get excited if I have peanut butter, an egg, sardines, ect... Maybe it is a little bit of him growing up in addition to the tiring of his old food.

Losech

Oh man, the picky food thing was real bad with Conker when he was younger. He was basically starving himself until he decided to steal my steak, so I started feeding him raw and cooked "people food" since he'd eat it. Then he began to get picky with that stuff... For some reason, almost any kibble he ate caused a nasty bad reaction back then. Almost anything that wasn't actually food was not fun to deal with. Now though, he can handle some processed stuff, and he's going through another round of picky and thankfully I've got some backups ready to try.
He still spazzes over food. He loves food no matter what it is until it's time to eat it. I don't quite understand what his deal is. He's all "OMG YAY FOOD!" Then sees what it is and goes "Nah, nevermind. I don't want that."
Juneau and Sasha get Taste of the Wild, four different flavors, and about once a week or so I give them a raw/cooked meal. Conker gets a huge variety, it's different almost every day for several reasons.

Conker is definitely not mature yet. Still somewhat adolescent, calmer than a puppy, but not like my two adult dogs. He is a very spazzy dog, jumps allover the place, runs like mad in the house... Conker is something like 1 year 10 months, Juneau and Sasha are going on 7 years. There is a definite difference. Juneau and Sasha were just like him until they were about three then they just calmed down.

timkim

Tachi was crazy about food for 1 week and now he is not eating. T.T both of my dogs doesn't eat that much any more and changing brand doesn't work because they will do same thing after 1 week.
This is most hard part of my dog life because I want to feed them well but they won't eat!!!!!

CarabooA

On the food issue: Dogs actually have a very hard time changing diets. Their system (even though their mouths and eyes might make you think different) is made to handle a steady base diet of "the same thing".

So this is what I would do: jmho )

With the food, I personally would give them their food (someone above mentioned going for nutritional value, which I agree with - we feed Blue Buffalo but whatever brand you like for nutrition) and stick with it. If they aren't eating it I most assuredly wouldn't then give treats to supplement or change right away because you think they don't like it. If you do that, they will learn to hold out for what they think is "the good stuff". Stay with a good brand/diet and they will eventually eat the food you give, and I'm sure are not starving in the mean time.

Also, I have always given a min of 3 weeks to switch a dog over to a new food as the flora in their stomachs/intestines has to completely change over to effectively digest the new product. It's not "the food" that's causing the diarrhea but their intestinal juices having to basically do a complete house make-over to digest it properly. Now of course, I think all of us have had to at some point switch faster when we have brought a new dog home because we didn't have the same food/brand that breeders/previous owners had. This did cause loose stool and a time when they didn't want to eat so much because their tummy was in fact upset. To help get their own natural flora/bacteria going again you can give a tablespoon or two a day of live yogurt/kefir anything with good probiotics. This will help transition to the new food (which you should keep them on if it's of good quality) and help alleviate the upset stomach until their body is adjusted to the new food.

As far as quantity and eating more/less, I've had several dogs that change the amount of what they eat based on what time of year it is, ie: stocking up for winter... a trait that I'm sure dates back to wild dog days.

We do like the Blue Buffalo, there are really fuuming toots in the beginning as this switch takes place but do not last long and every dog we've switched to it really maintains a very healthy physique, hair coat etc... I know raw is really best but Blue make a grain free type also which we really like.

So this is just what I've learned over the years and what I have found works for us! - I hope that helps some!

So I guess, long story short - make the best food decision for you dog and then stick with it, they will adjust!! lol

tjbart17

I would get him off of Blue Buffalo. Everyone I know who has ever tried it said their dog had diarrhea until they were taken off.

CarabooA

@tjbart17 - Not to totally get this thread off topic but I'm curious what type of Blue the people you know have fed? I'm always up for learning more if there is something I don't know about a product! ) We have 3 dogs who are on it, a German Shepard/Dobie mix (?), a siberian husky/border collie mix and little Kai Kitora and they do wonderfully on it. So, I'd love to know more experiences with it in case there is something I'm missing!
Thanks!

tjbart17

@CarabooA Sorry. This is why I shouldn't open my mouth.

The dogs were on Blue Wilderness. Just an fyi, Blue Wilderness has put injunctions against dog food review sites who have not favored their food. Sorry but if a company will not let an outside review critique a product, then I won't feed it to my dogs. I'll just leave it at that.

CarabooA

@tjbart17 - Please don't apologize!!! I was serious about being open to learning if there is something about a product that I'm unaware of! Thank you very much for sharing and I'll need to look further into that. We just feed the regular lamb and brown rice formula, not Wilderness, so I wonder if there is a difference??? Maybe should start a new thread so as not to hijack this one...lol... or maybe there already is a thread on Blue??? Seriously, no apologies and thank you for sharing!! )

CarabooA

BTW - just found lots of threads talking about Blue, will try to read as many as I can :oD

WrylyBrindle

Rei and Sage never had any trouble with Blue Buffalo, and it was in heavy rotation for them for a few years before we moved. It was an affordable good food with no corn wheat or soy, and I think Whole Dog Journal rates it well. It's not in our rotation anymore just because we can't get it here. I dont think we ever fed WIlderness.

I think tolerance of switching foods depends on the dog. All 3 of mine are used to variety - from raw, to cans, kibble, tripe, fresh, chicken backs, sardines, mackerel, eggs, frozen patties, yogurt, cottage cheese, fresh veg to free samples of kibble from the kangaroo and ostrich blends of California Natural (whoa!). We dont get vomiting and diarrhea or any gassiness, I assume because they are used to a varied diet. The girls are currently eating Acana chicken, with raw and tripe meals sometimes, while Sage who performs best on a lower protein ration is eating California Natural- Herring & Sweet potato, with raw and tripe meals switched in. You can switch stuff up, but I think you need to encourage diverse gut flora to do it. I dont think anyone is meant to eat the same thing constantly, but the way commercial dog food works is that the human becomes loyal to a brand, and understanding that humans will be loyal, dog food makers make it chemically "complete and balanced." It'd be like eating TOTAL cereal and nothing else. Sure, you get 100% of everything, but...that aint living, I feel, so we mix it up.

CarabooA

I have to say I completely agree with you Chrystal. And after typing that above I was thinking, "well, I'm glad I typed *base* diet.." because our dogs actually do get some raw foods depending on what season we are in.. (what I'm about to say may start a controversy, I hope not though..lol) when I have excess of raw milk on hand from my herd of goats that I milk, and I stress raw as our family is completely anti "store" milk, our dogs have some of their "meals" supplemented with this. They love it and look best in the summer when milk is flowing. We also, give raw bones with chunks still on them from animals we have butchered and make it a habit to have raw butcher bones fresh from the butchers. A bag of these go a long way and are great "good girl" treats. We also raise ducks so the dogs will occasionally get an egg here or there when they start stock piling too many. Those are more rare as they do cause some extreme gas, but the girls love it so... whaddya do?
I get in trouble with the hubby, but he's guilty too of slipping "goodies" to the dogs... or "oops" I dropped that nice raw trimming on the ground.. is there anyone here who could possibly clean this mess up...lolol

WrylyBrindle

We enjoy fresh raw cows milk from the farm up the road, and I have given it to Reilly (she loves milk) but not often and only in small quantities. I love it for drinking, but my brother -in-law (a physician) thinks we're nuts ("There's a reason all children are taught about Louis Pasteur!" he says. LOL) I think milk is probably a little sugary for dogs and I understand that most adult animals can;t properly digest the lactose, but I wonder if- like yogurt- there is something beneficial in it. I just dont know anyone who knows the answer...do you, Cara?

BTW- we had some fudge made with goat's milk and it was sooooo creamy and good.mmmmm!

jellyfish

i am hungry reading this thread, so all i've gotten out of it is: "fudge made with goat's milk". damnit, i want some fudge!


Part of me is a little apprehensive to let toki be hungry for an extended period to get him to eat his regular kibble since he is still technically a puppy. (7 months).
if he was a year old, I'd have no problem. I know that mixing in yogurt and other good eats in his kibble teaches him to wait it out to get tasty things, but maybe that is a sacrifice I can make. I mean, I like good food too. I get it.
I think i'll see how he does on Blue Buffalo.

Of which, I am transitioning Toki over to Blue Buffalo Freedom, Grain Free, Chicken. I haven't seen any bad poop yet, just smelly farts. I have a suspicion that grain-free kibble sits better than food with grain, just cause Innova nor Diamond didn't sit well with him. He was on Innova for over a month with no improvement, and quite a bit of loose stools. Though, I should have kept him on what he was eating at the breeder's house. Next pup will be more fortunate :P

CarabooA

mmmm goat fudge.... well, I won't go into detail but I'll just say:

Let me know when you're in CO and I'll hook you up!!! lol

I'm going to post what I know about raw milk to a new thread so I don't take over jellyfart's questions... )

@jellyfart How long will Toki go without eating? What's an extended time for you? I only ask to be on the same reference point as you )

My husky when she was a pup to about 2 years ago (she's 6 now) would nibble all day at her food and would sometimes only eat about 3/4 c. a day. This was in the heat of summer and she wasn't going thru any growth spurt or anything - she was fine energetic etc.. so??? Besides her, I never had a dog that would self regulate like that. After weekends with long hikes, she'd come home and scarf the whole bowl down, which then I'd give her a little extra for good measure. Now that she is older she gains weight more easily so is on a monitored diet which she eats a.m. & p.m. Saydee the other adult will eat everything in sight no matter how much she has eaten already. Kitora who is 5 months will sometimes leave 1/3 of her food but if I put it down a few hours later she will finish it and still eat dinner.

jellyfish

@CarabooA Good question. I don't know how long Toki would go without eating. My guess would be a several days? Its not so much a matter of him not completely eating as much as it is he eats a few bites and is done...and then comes over to me and puts his head in my lap, wanting whatever i'm eating for breakfast. So, admittingly, it might be my fault he is demanding a diet of strictly peanut butter and cheese, even though i don't give him table scraps, per say. But even when I found another kibble he WILL eat, he doesn't eat it very fast. Sometimes he will come back to it 5 minutes later and slowly finish it off. Its just an odd eating habit because usually if he wants the food, he will eat it ALL at once. I don't think anything is wrong with him, I'm just wondering as to why he is doing such things.

I am going to follow your post on raw milk, I'm interested in this!

lizzysilvertongue

with my biology experience raw milk would probably be way better. We are making ourselves sick with all our antibiotic crap, no immunity to anything and super bugs. I however am a little if-y about giving a full grown dog milk because they lose their ability to digest lactose properly. I am for probiotic like yogurt, just not too much :P As for Toki I would have to see what he is doing to really know. I would feed him a good quality food and if his body seems to agree with it, leave it. Just wait like 2-3 weeks. My dads golden retriever would boycott her dog food if she ever got a table scrap. She would go like a whole week without eating before giving up and going back to her dog food. You could always leave it out all day and see if he eats it?

CarabooA

@lizzysilvertongue - you are absolutely correct! We are making ourselves SO sick and "our" children are having the worst of it! I hope I'm always able to provide the raw milk for my family. If I can't, I think I would opt to go without!

PoetikDragon

@jellyfart A healthy dog wont starve himself. I recommend giving him his food, leaving it out for 15 minutes, then putting it away until the next meal. Feed him at least twice a day. Except for training, give him no treats or snacks between meals. He will very soon learn that he needs to eat the meals you give him and do so promptly. Put on hold all treat-based training until he's figured out the meal time protocol if you want faster results.

I wouldn't worry too much about the fact that he is still growing. He will eat what he needs. He might go a little hungry until he learns that he needs to eat the meals you have prepared for him, but it wont hurt him. Besides, with a large breed of dog it is a greater risk to overfeed and grow too quickly; hence why I never recommend puppy food, which is far too rich for a nice slow and steady maturation.

NB: Dairy products are not good for dogs and cats. Goats milk is preferred over cow milk if its necessary (for bottle feeding, for example). Otherwise, try to avoid them or limit it to a *very* special small treat.

oddball

My lab/shepherd mix has never been particularly picky with food but she does seem to get bored with her food and will not pounce on the food bowl as soon a I fill it after a while. She usually does this every 3-6 months which is when I switch to something new. After switching she seems hesitant to start eating any new product so what I do is take a small amount of fish oil and mix it into the new food. She loves the smell and will sit sniffing the bowl after all the food is gone. I do this for the first 2-3 days and it helps her to any new food much quicker.

shibamistress

I have had an Akita that got dangerously thin from not eating....she was like that all her life, and it was always a challenge to keep any weight on her at all, and we couldn't leave her in a kennel or anything because she wouldn't eat at all. I wonder if I had known about the raw diet way back then (90's) I might have been able to tempt her to eat, but I didn't then.

jellyfish

i'll have to keep in mind the fish oil. I sometimes put toasted sesame oil in with his food, but I don't want to have to do that often.

He scarfed down his food last night (odd cause he hasn't scarfed down food in a while).
This morning he didn't eat. (but begged for my cereal)
So I took up his food and we'll see about tonight.

tjbart17

@CarabooA Maybe it is different! I'll have to ask around. I give Koda Great Life, so I don't know. The Blue Buffalo I'm talking about has been recalled a couple of times the past three years that I've had Koda.