how interesting! Where did you find these? Was there anything on the quality of coat/color? All the tails are good because it is the angulation of the tail, not the curl, that matters. As long as the tail doesn't look like it is coming out of the butt, then all is good, ha.
The one issue/question I have with the standard is the 10:10, square body. WHY? While it looks aesthetically badass, I don't see how it is entirely functional. The dog has a shorter stride, so he isn't going to be able to run as effective as other dogs. I see this with Toki. He tires easy and doesn't run as fast as most other dogs. Of course, he could be out of shape, but even as a puppy he would tire quicker than the other puppies and not be able to keep up in chase games.
However, this leads me to believe the reasoning for the 10:10 body is for mountain trekking and strength, which I could see as being historically advantageous in Japan. Toki loves to play wrestle, and while that may be the little boy in him, I sort of think that is what he was built for: strength, not endurance.
Another thing brought up on the other thread, why the straight butt? Toki has one of those straight butts when viewed from the side, but honestly, curvy butts seem to be more functional and beneficial to the dog. More healthy and muscular. (and I am sure there is a joke in there somewhere about curvy butts)
This is all just speculation from mainly me and a little bit of other people, so i would love to hear opinions!
@jellyfart a dog's reach (and stride) is primarily dependent on the layback of the shoulder and the length of the upper arm. A straight shoulder with insufficient layback limits the degree of motion of the front legs, while a short upper arm increases the amount of movement necessary to lift and place the feet.
Both problems can also lead to very inefficient movement. Short upper arms may mean the dog has to lift the front feet high up off the ground, when ideally the paws should only just clear the ground as the dog moves. Insufficient layback affects the dog's natural "shock absorbers" much like locking your knees when jumping or lifting. Additionally, if a dog has poor reach in the front but good reach in the back, the front and rear feet will be in a constant collision course which the dog must compensate for by altering its gait.
Akitas are supposed to have a shoulder that is "well laid back" and the Akita's proportions should be 10:11 (not perfectly square) with the females somewhat longer. A square dog wouldn't have reach problems per-say, but definitely would be tripping over its own feet. That said, long dogs have poor reach in comparison to other dogs of the same length but more square (taller) builds. One should always make sure that in addition to the overall proportions, the individual bone lengths are also correct, to avoid issues like short upper arms.
I have a really cool book I highly recommend called The Dog in Action, written and illustrated by McDowell Lyon in 1950. Its a study of anatomy and locomotion of dogs that is really in depth and detailed, yet accessible and easy to understand.
In the section about a dog's gaits, it has this to say about pacing and rear assemly (which is less ideal than trotting, typically speaking):
"Interference is perhaps another agent that makes a pacer out of a dog. Over angulated behind for conformation and balance with the forehand, he finds it easier to exchange the diagonals of the trot with their constant clipping for the greater foot freedom of the laterals [of the pace] instead of continuing to run crab-wise."
Something I have never seen discussed in regards to the Akita, yet is important to a dog's movement and rear assembly, is the slope of the croup. People talk about the stifle and hocks but make no mention of the pelvis. The croup is dog fancy term for the top of the hip bone where the back side of the leg begins. Its angle has a lot to do with the dog's ability to support itself (note that most weight should be on the withers) as well as the efficiency of the locomotion of the back legs.
Ideally a dog has about a 30 degree angle for its croup, which allows the power of the stride to be transmitted between two 150 degree angles for the most efficient movement. Any more or less than this 30 degree angle can be described as steep or flat respectively. These traits can have advantages in certain situations, but for an overall and general purpose dog, should be avoided.
- A steep croup allows the animal to get his feet under him and pivot quickly. It also gives the dog "rear wheel drive" to back up better, such as out of a tight space. Steep croups are common in fighting dogs, and I would imagine its advantageous to a climbing or hunting catch dog. However, steep croups shorten the forward arc of the rear legs so tend to lack reach and suffer in speed.
- A flat croup increases the length of the stride and increases the dog's speed. Combined with a long body (such as on a German Shepherd) the dog can achieve a "flying trot" which has a few beats of suspension in mid-air. However, flat croups also increase the length of the muscles along the stifle to draw the leg backwards, and so flat groups tend to lack power and maneuverability.
On the subject of the musculature of the leg, a high tail set (which is found in Akitas) shortens these muscles, giving the rear assembly more power.
On the subject of stifles, the back legs need to be balanced with the front legs in reach and length. An angulated stifle means that both the upper and lower leg bones must be proportionately longer, increasing the rear drive and throwing the dog's stride out of balance. This works fine in breeds like (again) the German Shepherd, have a sloped hind end that allows very angular stifles without the rear legs being longer than the front. Level-backed breeds like Akitas would have overly long back legs if the stifle is too angular.
Are JAs starting to move towards a more abrupt stop?
I'm looking at the diagram and trying to mentally overlay with some of the male pics, and even when considering the stronger male brow, it seems like the stop is more pronounced?
I see a considerable difference between the stop on my Japanese Akitas and the stop and brow on Gryphon. That said, stop is directly related to eye shape, and the steeper the stop the rounder the eye. This was explained to me by a NIPPO judge, and I see it in evidence on Ghidora. The AKIHO judge marked him down for his eyes being too round. So although it may be a current trend (I couldn't say) I don't think the Japanese Akita will be move too far towards an abrupt stop because the eye shape will be undesirable.
You guys need to ask Poeticdragon for all question regarding JA.~ I'm finding these information from club that I joined few years ago from Korea. I do have one letter about color but only for red. I will translate and put it up.
"Akitas are supposed to have a shoulder that is "well laid back" and the Akita's proportions should be 10:11 (not perfectly square) with the females somewhat longer"
If you look at those diagrams the figure is drawn 10:10. I agree that females should be "slightly longer than tall" but I'm not sure that is holding true for males.
I dunno about the above diagram, but the translation of the AKIHO standard says "In the dog (male) the ratio of height to body length is 100 to 110. The bitch is slightly longer in length." That's where I got 10:11 from.
Here's a photo that explains what I was trying to convey earlier about the slope of croup. Its not an Akita, but use your imagination.
Also, to answer @jellyfart as to why you want the legs up under the dog, another picture:
"As A increases, greater muscle tone is needed to support weight and motion and maintain a level topline."
Also in regards to proportion, its not enough to say a dog is square or not. Look at this wolf and poodle, both of whom are square:
"A comparison of a standard Poodle and a wolf. The Poodle measures square but has an extremely long loin and back in general. The wolf measures longer in body yet she is shorter in her back and her loin is very short. Just saying a dog is squarely built tells you nothing. You must look to see how all the parts fit together." Source: http://susangarrettdogagility.com/2009/10/helen-king-on-structure-evaluation/
Comments
All the tails are good because it is the angulation of the tail, not the curl, that matters. As long as the tail doesn't look like it is coming out of the butt, then all is good, ha.
The one issue/question I have with the standard is the 10:10, square body. WHY?
While it looks aesthetically badass, I don't see how it is entirely functional. The dog has a shorter stride, so he isn't going to be able to run as effective as other dogs. I see this with Toki. He tires easy and doesn't run as fast as most other dogs. Of course, he could be out of shape, but even as a puppy he would tire quicker than the other puppies and not be able to keep up in chase games.
However, this leads me to believe the reasoning for the 10:10 body is for mountain trekking and strength, which I could see as being historically advantageous in Japan. Toki loves to play wrestle, and while that may be the little boy in him, I sort of think that is what he was built for: strength, not endurance.
Another thing brought up on the other thread, why the straight butt? Toki has one of those straight butts when viewed from the side, but honestly, curvy butts seem to be more functional and beneficial to the dog. More healthy and muscular. (and I am sure there is a joke in there somewhere about curvy butts)
This is all just speculation from mainly me and a little bit of other people, so i would love to hear opinions!
Both problems can also lead to very inefficient movement. Short upper arms may mean the dog has to lift the front feet high up off the ground, when ideally the paws should only just clear the ground as the dog moves. Insufficient layback affects the dog's natural "shock absorbers" much like locking your knees when jumping or lifting. Additionally, if a dog has poor reach in the front but good reach in the back, the front and rear feet will be in a constant collision course which the dog must compensate for by altering its gait.
Akitas are supposed to have a shoulder that is "well laid back" and the Akita's proportions should be 10:11 (not perfectly square) with the females somewhat longer. A square dog wouldn't have reach problems per-say, but definitely would be tripping over its own feet. That said, long dogs have poor reach in comparison to other dogs of the same length but more square (taller) builds. One should always make sure that in addition to the overall proportions, the individual bone lengths are also correct, to avoid issues like short upper arms.
In the section about a dog's gaits, it has this to say about pacing and rear assemly (which is less ideal than trotting, typically speaking):
"Interference is perhaps another agent that makes a pacer out of a dog. Over angulated behind for conformation and balance with the forehand, he finds it easier to exchange the diagonals of the trot with their constant clipping for the greater foot freedom of the laterals [of the pace] instead of continuing to run crab-wise."
Ideally a dog has about a 30 degree angle for its croup, which allows the power of the stride to be transmitted between two 150 degree angles for the most efficient movement. Any more or less than this 30 degree angle can be described as steep or flat respectively. These traits can have advantages in certain situations, but for an overall and general purpose dog, should be avoided.
- A steep croup allows the animal to get his feet under him and pivot quickly. It also gives the dog "rear wheel drive" to back up better, such as out of a tight space. Steep croups are common in fighting dogs, and I would imagine its advantageous to a climbing or hunting catch dog. However, steep croups shorten the forward arc of the rear legs so tend to lack reach and suffer in speed.
- A flat croup increases the length of the stride and increases the dog's speed. Combined with a long body (such as on a German Shepherd) the dog can achieve a "flying trot" which has a few beats of suspension in mid-air. However, flat croups also increase the length of the muscles along the stifle to draw the leg backwards, and so flat groups tend to lack power and maneuverability.
On the subject of the musculature of the leg, a high tail set (which is found in Akitas) shortens these muscles, giving the rear assembly more power.
On the subject of stifles, the back legs need to be balanced with the front legs in reach and length. An angulated stifle means that both the upper and lower leg bones must be proportionately longer, increasing the rear drive and throwing the dog's stride out of balance. This works fine in breeds like (again) the German Shepherd, have a sloped hind end that allows very angular stifles without the rear legs being longer than the front. Level-backed breeds like Akitas would have overly long back legs if the stifle is too angular.
Are JAs starting to move towards a more abrupt stop?
I'm looking at the diagram and trying to mentally overlay with some of the male pics, and even when considering the stronger male brow, it seems like the stop is more pronounced?
I do have one letter about color but only for red. I will translate and put it up.
If you look at those diagrams the figure is drawn 10:10. I agree that females should be "slightly longer than tall" but I'm not sure that is holding true for males.
Also, to answer @jellyfart as to why you want the legs up under the dog, another picture:
"As A increases, greater muscle tone is needed to support weight and motion and maintain a level topline."
Also in regards to proportion, its not enough to say a dog is square or not. Look at this wolf and poodle, both of whom are square:
"A comparison of a standard Poodle and a wolf. The Poodle measures square but has an extremely long loin and back in general. The wolf measures longer in body yet she is shorter in her back and her loin is very short. Just saying a dog is squarely built tells you nothing. You must look to see how all the parts fit together." Source: http://susangarrettdogagility.com/2009/10/helen-king-on-structure-evaluation/