search..............

kimputai

OK, I am totally not familiar with any kind of Japanese breeds at all. I have had some different breeds in the past, but know I would like to have a Japanese dog. In search for a Japanese dog, what would be some good tips be from the members of this board? What are the most known health problems in the different breeds, If I should visit a certain breeder, what should I look at and ask about his breed?

PoetikDragon

If you are buying domestic, always ask the breeder about health screening and certifications. A clean bill of health from the vet is not good enough. The breeder should be doing OFA, CERF, thyroid, etc as appropriate for the breed. Don't simply ask if the parents were tested - make sure you actually look at (and preferably get a copy of) the certificates and/or get the numbers to look them up on the online database at http://www.offa.org/. Find out what guarantees the breeder has against genetic disorders and make sure the terms are in a written contract.

If you are importing, health certs are probably not an option. If it doesn't work out, it will probably not be feasible to return the dog to the breeder overseas, so keep that in mind as well. Importing is therefor a greater risk and commitment than buying a puppy domestic.

kimputai

A guarantee against genetic disorders? How can someone guarantee that? You get a guarantee if you buy a TV or a microwave, but with a animal? If a dog has been a part of your family for a few months, and it turns out he has poor hips or elbow problems or whatever, how many people would use that guarantee or contract and return the dog to its breeder? I wouldn't.

shibamistress

A health guarantee is still standard, and what is says is that the breeder stands behind their dogs and did the proper health tests and tried, to the best of their ability, to produce a healthy dog. Whether you would return the dog or not--and probably almost no one would--you still want the guarantee. On my contract for one of my dogs, it says that I could either get another dog or a partial to full refund of the price of the dog if there are genetic health issues. That's fairly common (and frankly, given how many health issues he has, I've been thinking of that more and more). If they don't stand behind their dogs and feel confident in giving such a guarantee, you may not want to deal with them.

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking though? About health concerns in the different breeds? If so, there are a lot depending on the breed you're interested in, so probably focusing on a specific breed would be better. I know both Shiba and Akita have thyroid issues, for example, and luxating patella is a problem in Shiba, and hips in Akita, and the OFA testing in the US is to say hips/knees/elbows of parents are ok. Eyes are a problem in Akita. Kai have less health issues than some of the other breeds. I don't know much about Shikoku at all.

What PoeticDragon noted was general things to look for in a breeder, and was good advice. Asking about health issues depends on the breed, of course.

lindsayt

Health warrenty is probably a more accurate way to think about it.

BradA1878

@kimputai - Is this a thought experiment or for you?

If it's for you, I am sure you would make a great owner to any of the NK breeds. You Tosa are pretty spoiled. lol

Maybe a Shikoku? That would be interesting since they are from the same region as the Tosa Inu and had a bit to do with the initial creation of the breed.

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BradA1878

Health issues I would watch for are HD and LP issues. It depends on the breed as to what I would look for when picking a pup, but I would probably go for the mellower puppy who is not shy. But, that's just my preference.

kimputai

@shibamistress.........A guarantee is so easy to give. Nobody can guarantee the health of a dog and I think most breeds have more diseases to worry about as hips and elbows. Of course (some ) breeders do their best. IMO, if a dog has reached a certain age and has medical problems after a while, buyers most of the time don't use that guarantee, because they have to return the dog to its breeder and never know what will happen to the dog. If the breeder says the dog will be put down, I guess 90% of the buyers won't return the dog at all.
@brada1878........it's just a thought, but maybe one other people want to know but don't ask. If I was a total newbie and looking for a Japanese dog, what would be the advice of the experienced members on this board. What makes breeders so different that I would buy a dog from them. If I wanted an Akita, what should be my first step to search for a good and healthy dog.? I don't care about how many prices the dog has won on a dogshow, if that was the one and only thing to look for, i could buy a dog from any breeder with a website. You pay a lot of money for a dog, and he/she is a part of your family, you feed, love and take care of the dog but you don't want a walking vet bill.

kimputai

So, I am thinking to get a Japanese Akita, not an AA. Advice me please.

jellyfish

In regards to the Japanese Akita... I would look at the pedigree lines of the dog. Some people like to mix AA with JA.
I am NOT a fan of this.
Look to see what kennels the grandparents and great-grandparents (and so forth) come from, and try to do research on those kennels. Though, if the kennel is in Japan, it might be harder to do research on the web without actually asking another breeder. Word of mouth works wonders for a reputation. I'm sure you know this though.

For instance, I like Mr. Shirai's dogs. (from japan). I am happy to have some of his lines in Toki. This became something important to me; I wanted to know that Toki came from reputable sources and not from some back yard breeders.

Also, whenever I see an non-japanese registered name in a pedigree, I question if they're AA. I think this is more prevalent in the states. Most people register their dogs with Japanese names, so when a cheesy name like "shining blue star of america of X kennel" pops up, I think...oh lord. This might be an American Akita breed to an Japanese akita. This might not turn out well.

Another thing, all the reputable JA breeders know each other. This is a good thing, as it will help you find the puppy/breeder you are looking for. They will be more interested in finding you a puppy that matches you (even if that means sending you to another breeder) versus some back yard breeder who just wants to breed for money.


another big thing.... AKIHO. I know you said you don't care about prizes or dog shows, but if the dog is registered with AKIHO, then the likelihood of the dog coming from a reputable breeder who cares about health and temperament is going to be good, and there will NOT be American Akita blood in the dog. Infact, I would never buy a japanese akita if the dogs were not AKIHO registered. To me, it means much more than dogshows, it means that the dog is from a legit source who cares about health, sound, temperament, as well as looks. I want my JA to look like a JA, which means NO American Akita in my dog's bloodlines. (even if AA are wonderful dogs!
It shows to me that the breeder cared enough put the effort in to register and show their dogs so that I could enjoy the awesome puppies that were to follow.

However, being AKIHO registered is just one component out of many to consider. There still is a few shady folks who claim to have akiho registered dogs who practice not-so-responsible breedings. It goes back to health and stuff. like breeding the bitch at an appropriate age, doing CERFS and OFA, ect... and in general, not saying stupid things like "i have a brindle born from two red dogs". That is shady...and impossible.

If you import from Japan, I've heard they don't do health checks as strict as the do in the states. And I don't know if you can return a sick puppy....just something to think about.
I have never imported, so I'm not one much to comment. If you decide to import from Japan, there are a few other, more qualified people to comment on this topic.


I hope you can apply this advice overseas. If not, I apologize! Either way, I fully support you getting a Japanese akita!

PoetikDragon

The purpose of a conformation show is to judge potential breeding stock against the breed standard. Yes there is a lot of drama and politics in the "sport" and some people are very competative and care more about winning than impartial evaluation. But ultimately, no dog should be bred without third party, unbiased evaluation that it is a good representative of the breed. That is why dog shows are important, so don't dismiss them so lightly.

No reputable breeder is going to put down a dog returned to them!! A responsible breeder is committed to every life s/he brings into this world. Breeders take back dogs they have bred in order to keep those dogs out of shelters and rehome them.

kimputai

@poeticdragon......I have seen many dogs winning champion titles and put down after a few months because they had bad hips or hart problems. IMO, judging a dog from the outside and only according to the breed standard doesn't make him/her an excellent specimen of the breed. A dogshow is the easiest way to think that your dog is special. I have seen Japanese dogs kicked out of the showring by Japanese judges and a few months later the dog became a national champion after all. Besides, I don't know how things work in the USA, but most breeders only talk about the good results the dog has achieved, the bad ones are never mentioned. So, that said, with all respect to people who do shows, I am looking for a JA and I am really not impressed by the number of ribbons a dog has.

kimputai

@jellyfart.....I never heard of AKIHO........but thanks for your input. -)

ayk

AKIHO (aka Akita Inu Hozonkai) is the biggest Japanese Akita registry in Japan. I'll be direct and say that if you haven't heard of AKIHO, then you're very far away from being able to select a good JA (regardless of ribbons).

jellyfart and poeticdragon are several steps in front of you and are only trying to save you some grief of learning stuff the hard way.

kimputai

@ayk.........that's exactly the reason why I ask these questions.

ayk

First step is to know how to identify whether a prospective dog that you're looking is a JA or not. There are AAs and there are JA-AA blends nicknamed "tweenies."

Direct AKIHO papers are the safest bet, but since you live in Europe, you might encounter FCI that may or may not be based on AKIHO dogs. Here is a link that will help guide you in analyzing European pedigrees:

http://www.nihonken.org/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/131005/#Comment_131005


The second step, I would say, is determine how far out are you willing to go for your JA. Europe/Russia, US, Korea/Japan?

In the US, all of the Japanese Akita Club of America members agree to a code of ethnics that include health testing of the parent dogs as well as behaviors on how breeders act towards puppy buyers. Here is the COE:

http://www.the-jaca.org/jacacode.htm

To some people, this offers a level of assurance in obtaining dogs from a distance.

In Europe or Russia, I get the impression that the level of health testing depends on the country from where the dog is or the personal integrity of the individual breeder if health testings are not mandated. ie. A forum member here had imported 4 JA from Europe and only one was healthy.

In Korea or Japan, health testing has not been the norm. In Japan, there will be more options to pick genetically diverse outcrossed dogs instead of line-bred show dogs if you so choose, but there aren't health tests done. So some conditions that may cause the dog to look outwardly fine are not caught. It is a greater gamble.