Well, it's a step in the right direction to provide the pups free as a result of that accidental breeding. But good lord those are going to be some drivey and tenacious pups.
Not happy to hear that they left potential going in season dog in the hands of a "dog sitter", sounds like a bit of back peddling in the excuse department....why even bring that up at this point. Owner fail regardless.
Hope it is just one pup. Obviously it will require a big commitment to follow up on placement in insuring that pup(s) has/have the appropriate home(s) and life long training. Hope they will do that much and spay or neuter it and one of the adult dogs in the household.
Of course I don't know the bigger situation though .....My question is why a breeder would place an intact dog within a home that has an intact dog of a different breed that is not prepared. Multiple Breeders fail in this case as well.
We have 2 intact huskie males and 2 intact shikoku (male and female). Everything went well when our female was in heat, because we're very careful, keep them separated etc.
I don't think a lot of dog owners here in Europe neuter or spay their dog. And if your really careful, nothing unwanted will happen.
I agree with you StaticNfuzz...personally I will never leave my female in heat in the hands of a baby sitter. And I will never neuter or spay one of my dogs, unless it is really necessary because of health issues. This makes me wonder, I know in the US a lot more dogs are being spayed or neutered then in Europe... maybe a bit off topic, but what is the main reason for you to do that?
Main reason not many dog owners are responsible and some just let their male or female dog roam the country and mate with whatever dog they find..
Especially in places like in the country or down south.. There's a lot of strays and dogs in shelters due to strays producing or someone dog got pregnant so they give up the puppies etc.
I just think not a lot of owners can handle it..
I know some who have intact dogs and do fine they trained and socialize their dog well and they coarse don't let their dog roam the cities or country without supervision and never had issue.
I never owned an intact dog so can't say from experience myself on how it is..
A lot of vets say it's best to spay/neuter dogs for health reasons, but there are some say it's just as bad to neuter a male and some say it's fine. a lot vets and shelters push it because shelters are so full of dogs and cats.
I am all for spaying females, preferably before first heat, unless the owner intends to breed. Over half of all malignant tumors in dogs are mammary cancer. A bitch spayed before her first heat has 0.5% chance of developing mammary cancer, after her first heat it jumps to 8% chance, and after her second heat a whopping 26% chance! Also, with every heat she has, a female has a chance of contracting pyometra - this risk increases with every single heat cycle she ever has throughout her entire lifetime. As such, after a breeding female is retired, she should still be spayed to avoid pyometra as a senior. Spaying also completely prevents ovarian cancer, false pregnancies, and protects against a number of other small problems. As a bonus, you don't have to deal with the mess and drama of a heat cycle.
Males are another story. There was one study done with Rottweilers that suggested neutering before full maturity could be linked to increased risk of bone cancer. Many people incorrectly apply it to all other breeds, when there is no evidence of that. At whatever age is preferred, however, I also recommend males be neutered if not used for breeding. It prevents testicular cancer and protects against other diseases. As a bonus, the male will be calmer and more manageable, especially around females in heat.
With a dog or same-gender aggressive breed (like Akitas, for example) spay/neuter increases the likelihood of a successful multi-dog household.
I know there are advantages of neutering or spaying your dogs, but there are some negative effects too. for an example a higher risk of: distorted bone structure, hypothyroidism, obesity (witch can cause a lot more problems), diabetes and more.
Also there is an misunderstanding that spayed or neutered dogs live healthier and a longer life. But there is no evidence that it's true. Dogs in europe don't live shorter. Actually there are studies that indicate that intact dogs live longer.
Getting back to the original topic for a second... ,:D
At least it appears this pup is in the hands of someone prepared for such a challenge... but I posted on the forum again in case anyone else comes across it to encourage coming here for information on the Shikoku or reaching out to the sire's breeder (I don't know if that was out of line or not :x).
I made it a point to state that I'm concerned for where the other pups are placed (just in case the siblings are placed in homes that search for this sort of thing on the net and come across the forum).
I'm probably barking up the wrong tree here but... do you think the owner of the Shikoku has told his breeder about this mistake litter (or does anyone know if he's been contacted about it otherwise/what his puppy placement requirements are?
A little off topic: what is the usual course of action when something like this happens? (probably should have asked that before).
re: neutering....I think the biggest push to spay/neuter in the US is because there are too many irresponsible people who let dogs breed, and shelters were filled up with unwanted dogs that were often euthanized. Reducing the amount of unwanted litters is still a compelling reason to me for spay/neuter. Obviously it would have helped in this case.
That said, for me, the rottie study was enough to make me feel that neutering before maturity is a bad idea. There is a bigger risk, in my mind, of bone cancer than the pretty small risk of testicular cancer. While it is true the study was only on rotties, I feel like it is compelling enough evidence for me to be concerned about any large breed dog. I know scientifically it is not proven beyond one breed, but I see know reason why it would only be limited to one breed. I lost my GSD to bone cancer, so I'm not willing to take the chance.
I also do not believe that neutering much changes any behavior other than sex related behavior--certainly it has not changed temperament of my male dogs at all.
I think it is a bad idea to spay/neuter before the dog has reached maturity, as there is some evidence that doing so too early does effect the closure of the growth plates which can cause problems. My vet said they usually make judgements on the owners--if they think the owner is responsible, they say spay/neuter at 1 to 1.5 years. If not, they do it at 6 months, but they will not do it earlier than that.
There is a spay/neuter thread around here somewhere that talks more about all of this. I would be interested in knowing, though, about the average health of European dogs--since more of them are left intact, is there less cancer? More of certain types? This would be an interesting comparison, I think.
I'm not sure if it's just because of the amount of more intact dogs is Europe is the main reason that they might live longer. Probably it has something to do with other things, like vaccines. As far I know, in the US they do more vaccines then here in Europe. Of course most people in Europe do the yearly vaccine and all the vaccines recommended by the vet.
We only gave our 2 huskies (from working lines) the vaccines that are written by law, so we skipped all the other ones. The huskies turned 14yrs last month, their breeder never had a husky turning 14yrs old. And all the brothers and sisters of our 2 boys passed.
The post may claim accidental...but my guess is someone is trying to create a custom brindle Shikoku. Atleast the Shikoku was the father, can't imagine the possible difficult birthing a female would have had with what I assume would be a much larger pup.
It is a great looking pup though, hope the owner is ready...once the cute puppy phase is over that one might turn out to be a handful.
Comments
Jesse
And yes, I know accidents can happen, I'm just very careful myself.
I hope the pup is not very hard to handle for the new owner.
Not happy to hear that they left potential going in season dog in the hands of a "dog sitter", sounds like a bit of back peddling in the excuse department....why even bring that up at this point. Owner fail regardless.
Hope it is just one pup. Obviously it will require a big commitment to follow up on placement in insuring that pup(s) has/have the appropriate home(s) and life long training. Hope they will do that much and spay or neuter it and one of the adult dogs in the household.
Of course I don't know the bigger situation though .....My question is why a breeder would place an intact dog within a home that has an intact dog of a different breed that is not prepared. Multiple Breeders fail in this case as well.
Not trying to be harsh.....JMHO
Snf
Everything went well when our female was in heat, because we're very careful, keep them separated etc.
I don't think a lot of dog owners here in Europe neuter or spay their dog.
And if your really careful, nothing unwanted will happen.
I agree with you StaticNfuzz...personally I will never leave my female in heat in the hands of a baby sitter.
And I will never neuter or spay one of my dogs, unless it is really necessary because of health issues.
This makes me wonder, I know in the US a lot more dogs are being spayed or neutered then in Europe... maybe a bit off topic, but what is the main reason for you to do that?
~ hope I didn't offend anyone
~ hope I didn't offend anyone"
Main reason not many dog owners are responsible and some just let their male or female dog roam the country and mate with whatever dog they find..
Especially in places like in the country or down south.. There's a lot of strays and dogs in shelters due to strays producing or someone dog got pregnant so they give up the puppies etc.
I just think not a lot of owners can handle it..
I know some who have intact dogs and do fine they trained and socialize their dog well and they coarse don't let their dog roam the cities or country without supervision and never had issue.
I never owned an intact dog so can't say from experience myself on how it is..
A lot of vets say it's best to spay/neuter dogs for health reasons, but there are some say it's just as bad to neuter a male and some say it's fine. a lot vets and shelters push it because shelters are so full of dogs and cats.
I can't say for sure myself.
Males are another story. There was one study done with Rottweilers that suggested neutering before full maturity could be linked to increased risk of bone cancer. Many people incorrectly apply it to all other breeds, when there is no evidence of that. At whatever age is preferred, however, I also recommend males be neutered if not used for breeding. It prevents testicular cancer and protects against other diseases. As a bonus, the male will be calmer and more manageable, especially around females in heat.
With a dog or same-gender aggressive breed (like Akitas, for example) spay/neuter increases the likelihood of a successful multi-dog household.
I know there are advantages of neutering or spaying your dogs, but there are some negative effects too.
for an example a higher risk of: distorted bone structure, hypothyroidism, obesity (witch can cause a lot more problems), diabetes and more.
Also there is an misunderstanding that spayed or neutered dogs live healthier and a longer life. But there is no evidence that it's true. Dogs in europe don't live shorter. Actually there are studies that indicate that intact dogs live longer.
At least it appears this pup is in the hands of someone prepared for such a challenge... but I posted on the forum again in case anyone else comes across it to encourage coming here for information on the Shikoku or reaching out to the sire's breeder (I don't know if that was out of line or not :x).
I made it a point to state that I'm concerned for where the other pups are placed (just in case the siblings are placed in homes that search for this sort of thing on the net and come across the forum).
I'm probably barking up the wrong tree here but... do you think the owner of the Shikoku has told his breeder about this mistake litter (or does anyone know if he's been contacted about it otherwise/what his puppy placement requirements are?
A little off topic: what is the usual course of action when something like this happens? (probably should have asked that before).
That said, for me, the rottie study was enough to make me feel that neutering before maturity is a bad idea. There is a bigger risk, in my mind, of bone cancer than the pretty small risk of testicular cancer. While it is true the study was only on rotties, I feel like it is compelling enough evidence for me to be concerned about any large breed dog. I know scientifically it is not proven beyond one breed, but I see know reason why it would only be limited to one breed. I lost my GSD to bone cancer, so I'm not willing to take the chance.
I also do not believe that neutering much changes any behavior other than sex related behavior--certainly it has not changed temperament of my male dogs at all.
I think it is a bad idea to spay/neuter before the dog has reached maturity, as there is some evidence that doing so too early does effect the closure of the growth plates which can cause problems. My vet said they usually make judgements on the owners--if they think the owner is responsible, they say spay/neuter at 1 to 1.5 years. If not, they do it at 6 months, but they will not do it earlier than that.
There is a spay/neuter thread around here somewhere that talks more about all of this. I would be interested in knowing, though, about the average health of European dogs--since more of them are left intact, is there less cancer? More of certain types? This would be an interesting comparison, I think.
We only gave our 2 huskies (from working lines) the vaccines that are written by law, so we skipped all the other ones. The huskies turned 14yrs last month, their breeder never had a husky turning 14yrs old. And all the brothers and sisters of our 2 boys passed.
I promise, this is my last off topic comment ;-)
It is a great looking pup though, hope the owner is ready...once the cute puppy phase is over that one might turn out to be a handful.