Does your dog really know your criteria for sit/stay or down/stay?

sandrat888

Found this clip that was recorded back in late March/April this year and thought it would be interesting to share.



It was Koji competing in Rally Obedience at the Excellent class. This is the "Honor exercise" where the dog has to hold a sit or down stay (judge decides) while the next dog and handler do their course.

I am not a fan of this exercise as the dog that followed you is off-leash and run the risk of a strange off-leash dog visiting your dog while it is just minding its own business and doing what you ask. Glad they have since got rid of this exercise.

However, it is a good test to see if your dog really understands what a sit/stay and down/stay is and for you to think about what your criteria is for each of the command you think your dog knows.

For us, our criteria for "sit" are 1) one command and the dog should sit promptly in any situations/distractions, 2) hold that sit position until it hears the specific release word (the dog should not release itself if I take out a treat, I walk away, I lie down etc).

Even with all the training/trialing we have done, I still can not say my 2 Shibas will sit reliably in ANY and ALL situations/distractions and we are always working on the basics.

Calia

This reminds me of what I do with my pups during training sessions. I work with them all at once but some things, heeling for example, can not be taught properly with all dogs at once. So I will set two of them on the couch and give them a sit/stay or down/stay, and they have to stay there while I work with the third one. Every I reward the one I'm working with, I will also reward the two that are staying. Rotating can be a bit hectic at times, but they are getting better at it.

Losech

Conker is really good with remote sit/stays, and sit/stays in general, but he can't hold a down/stay to save his life. I'm working on it, but I think one of his issues is that he just doesn't like to go down. I dunno why exactly, it might be since he can't see what's around him as good as when he's in a sit (he's a generally nervous dog, so this idea makes sense to me) but as long as I am relatively close to him (within 150 feet or so) and give him the sit/stay command BEFORE he gets interested in a stimulus, he'll hold it.
I routinely use a sit/stay command while hiking. This is how I deal with things like prey animals, other hikers, dogs, and horses, while out on the trails.

Anyways, my criteria for a sit/stay is: Conker must sit without me repeating the command (which I usually have to do if the distraction is big enough, and he takes his sweet time in responding), he cannot break the sit until I release him, and he must not give chase to the distraction after he is released (this is Juneau's issue, but she fortunately has an astounding recall). He always gets a "jackpot" of treats and praise if he holds the sit/stay, but not as many if he breaks it and I have to remind him what he's supposed to be doing. He still gets a lot of treats and praise though. A short heel usually follows the release, then after that he is "officially" released to go sniff bushes and whatnot.
If the distraction if an off-leash dog, I don't have him sit since that makes him nervous. If someone else's dog is not leashed, I will not leash any of mine since two of them are leash-reactive. If the dog is leashed, I will leash Conker (and the others) and move off the trail and put them into a sit slightly behind me so I can step in-between them and the other dog/people/horse. They must hold their sits until I release them, and I feed them treats the whole time so they stay focused on me instead of the distraction, especially if it's a horse. This is very hard with Juneau.

I usually train one dog alone since I don't want the others coming around and messing up what I'm doing or stealing treats. When I do group sessions, I have the two who are not working directly with me in a sit/stay. They get rewarded often so they hold the sit/stay, then I rotate dogs, and sometimes have a "catch the treat" game to keep everyone interested. Sometimes I will play a "stop and go" game where all the dogs follow me, and I stop suddenly without telling them or change directions. The dogs that stop get a treat, the ones who shoot past don't, and the dogs that do an automatic sit get a jackpot. This one helps a ton with leash manners since it trains them to keep an eye on me and to do what I do.

T_Dog

I haven't been working with Ares (my akita) as much as I should. I had him up and Tachi (my Shiba) up to one minute. I put them in a sit stay and walk about 25+ feet turn and hide behind the shed, start the timer and re appear at 1 min, walk back to them and release then treat. If one of them breaks the sit stay he gets to watch the other one get the treat.

venus

I tend to do all my training one to one with the girls. Although Venus is mostly just basics and currently isn't doing anything due to a ruptured cruciate. Athena is expected to sit on 1 command even from a distance, same for downs. Although in reality it doesn't always happen away from training class. She isn't expected to stay and hold those positions unless given a command to do so. She will hold indefinitely in a down position including with distractions similar to the video but with both her and the distraction dog off lead. Her sit stays are a little less controlled because when she gets bored she will lay down. she manages about 5 minutes in a sit at moment.
My biggest issue with Athena sits when working her to my left side is she doesn't sit straight. My fault entirely because I use to watch her constantly turning my body into her and she over compensated for that. I'm working on correcting my body position and retraining her to sit straight. I have always said at training Athena's biggest handicap will always be me, I'm not the most coordinated of people. Its the main reason when encouraged to enter a pre beginners obedience stakes heat i backed out.

sandrat888

I usually would just work with one dog at a time when we are teaching new skills.

I will only take two dogs out for training when they both understand the concept of patiently waiting for their turns and I heavily reward the dog that is waiting and less with the dog that I am working with as working with me is already part of the reward for the working dog.

The video shown here is a down/stay while the other dog was working in close proximity. What I want to show is the end result of a dog understanding what a down/stay is as we built the criteria of the command where the dog should not release itself unless it hears the specific release word.

Be very specific about your criteria and hold your criteria consistent as you train is very important to the dog's understanding of any commands or behaviors you want to build.

Also really lower the criteria when you start training. The dog needs to have very high success rate /reinforcement rate to keep it interested to play. 80% reinforcement rate is a good rule of thumb.

Think about whether your reward really has enough value to your dog. As an example, I have seen people petting pretty roughly on their dog's head as an reward, when the dog clearly does not enjoy it. The reward should be something your dog truly likes and not what you think the dog would like. Rewards should be comparable to what the task is. Timing is also important, so the dog can better understand what behavior is earning him the reward.