Curious: I've seen a couple of Kai with long coats (Border Collie length)... Is this just a Europe thing or are they also in Japan? I've never seen them in NIPPO show pictures. Just wondering...
Yes, it's a flaw. I've wondered the same thing about Europe, but I sort of chalked it up to the fact that the pics I see from Japan are mostly at shows or breeders showing off their dogs.
Then again, I don't know of any in NA. Maybe they just happened to get that gene in Europe and it's common because the gene pool isn't that big.
Its a flaw in all Nihon Ken. I don't know about its prevalence in the Kai or any breed other than the Japanese Akita. I do know that with Akitas, Japanese do *not* like to admit that they had a long coat born in their kennel and some used to (or still do) kill the coated puppies.
well, if anyone needs to hush up a long coat kai puppy, send him to me. It's cold here. I am an incessant braggart about my dogs though, I probably couldnt keep my mouth shut.
It might depend on the texture of the coat, but the long-hair on my dog is actually more trouble. The longer/softer fringe picks up burrs and dirt more than the harsh normal hairs. The coat also parts down the center when wet instead of shedding water. She hasn't encountered snow yet, but I assume the soft fringe would be snow magnets as well.
It's a daily chore to go through her ears, her neck, her toes, her britches, her tail, and the area where her tail touches the back.
I've never seen a long hair Kai Ken though. If you find one, please post a photo! @ayk, your poongsan is what I would imagine a long haired Kishu would look like.
Not sure, but the Long hair Akita reminds me of a long haired shiba? Maya maybe? shiba on the left I think is bowdu? I'm not sure I thought I saw this picture somewhere, but could be wrong..
I seen long haired kai ken pictures posted before on kai group or from friend on FB been while so I forgot who owned the kai ken..
This was the case with our CO too, Ann ( @ayk )...
Luytiy's hair is always clean as his is shorter, but Masha's (and Naum's) was always full of sticks and such. The medium and short coated COs are preferred for working homes.
Lindsay can tell you all about what gets caught in a really long coat CO (lol) @lindsayt
IMO long coated Kais are a problem in Europe... And it's caused by using the same (dogs might seem to be from different lines but really they aren't when looking more back than three generations) US imports who have same genes.
@Zinja, Yeah, that's Maya (mayama on the Shiba side, not sure if she's on this side?), a long-haired Shiba. Not Akita. If you found that picture without a caption/link somewhere, please let me know.
I did a google image search for "long haired" "akita" "shiba" and Maya showed up. There was a caption underneath the flikr image that says Maya was a Shiba.. I just didn't read it.
Grym just got his pre blood donation groom. It took a week to pull all the undercoat. The stuff on the body is fine, but the fluff on his legs gets filthy and matted up really badly. Talc powder is the best for helping his coat shed the forest particles.
Long coat is a flaw, and there is one breeder here who is spreading it around with her dogs. There is a genetic test for it that more breeders are using.
The long coat Kai pictures I saw gave these Kai the appearance of hyenas and werewolves!
Those long haired akita are cute! I do agree the long hair would be issue with burs and stuff..
I seen some very long coated dogs at the dog park their fur is full of leaves from playing..
I saw post on dogster shiba forum how breeder where the dogster got their shiba from is purposely breeding for long haired shiba inu.. I was surprised on this..
I mean long haired shiba are cute and all, but I don't think people need to be breeding for them on purpose.
Most of what I found were labeled as mixes. I am curious if some of those are actually purebred, since long-haired Shibas are also frequently identified as "mixes" when they're not...?
Huh. Kind of odd looking. But that's probably just because I'm used to the standard Kai coat. I'm not crazy about long haired dogs, though I have to admit the LC Shibas are cute, and the Akita pups up above are adorable!
But that's pretty annoying that someone is breeding the LC Shibas on purpose. Of course I shouldn't be surprised--there are people who breed creams on purpose too. There's always someone who will go out of their way to breed against standard it seems. *sigh*
The dog in the 2nd to last photo embedded (at the kamezo.cc link) (red collar) has Juno's tail and general coat length- I dont think I'd call him/her and Juno longcoats. The other dogs pictured are def long coats and much fluffier. But still, I havent seen any other kai with that tail except Juno and that dog there.
I have had the pleasure of meeting (and patting!) Ayu and Kori recently- and Ayu, Kori and Juno all have different coats, despite all being red girls and all being related through Mako (Ayu's mom, and Juno and Kori's grandmother). I like the diversity of the working-line kai.
@WrylyBrindle The short coat gene seems to have incomplete dominance. That is to say, if you have a dog that has one short coat gene (dominant) and one long coat gene (recessive), his coat will be longer and softer than if he had two short coat genes. This is why it remains prevalent in Japanese Akitas; the heterozygous dogs have nice plush coats that do well in shows, vs dogs like King Ghidora who has a shorter, rougher coat. So the carriers win more and are bred more, and when you breed two carriers together, you get coats and more carriers.
Anyway, its possible that Juno or the dog in the above photo is a carrier and has a slightly plusher coat than non-carriers in the breed. Or maybe its caused by something else entirely. Only way to know would be to DNA test.
I didn't know that long coat was an issue in Europe? Is there so much?
I already seen two but I think it's the only two in France (brother and sister). They are beautiful and very dark in color but their coat is so hard to take care of it seems ! ^^
My neighbour has a long-coat Kai. As some people have pointed out above, long-coat Kais do not appear in the dog show and, indeed, this neighbour's Kai comes from a family of working dogs to hunt wild boars, and their looks do not matter.
He is more than 10 years old but remains just as affectionate as he was at 6 months old. Currnetly, he has a "summer cut" but when his coat grows back again in winter, I will take a photo and show you.
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Then again, I don't know of any in NA. Maybe they just happened to get that gene in Europe and it's common because the gene pool isn't that big.
It's a daily chore to go through her ears, her neck, her toes, her britches, her tail, and the area where her tail touches the back.
Long hair Shiba:
I've never seen a long hair Kai Ken though. If you find one, please post a photo! @ayk, your poongsan is what I would imagine a long haired Kishu would look like.
I seen long haired kai ken pictures posted before on kai group or from friend on FB been while so I forgot who owned the kai ken..
Found it I was right it is Bowdu and Maya.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/menghsindy/7147307817/
Luytiy's hair is always clean as his is shorter, but Masha's (and Naum's) was always full of sticks and such. The medium and short coated COs are preferred for working homes.
Lindsay can tell you all about what gets caught in a really long coat CO (lol) @lindsayt
----
and puppies awwww
If it works in the Kai, a European breeder can avoid producing it by not breeding carrier to carrier.
@Zinja, Yeah, that's Maya (mayama on the Shiba side, not sure if she's on this side?), a long-haired Shiba. Not Akita. If you found that picture without a caption/link somewhere, please let me know.
Long coat is a flaw, and there is one breeder here who is spreading it around with her dogs. There is a genetic test for it that more breeders are using.
The long coat Kai pictures I saw gave these Kai the appearance of hyenas and werewolves!
I seen some very long coated dogs at the dog park their fur is full of leaves from playing..
I saw post on dogster shiba forum how breeder where the dogster got their shiba from is purposely breeding for long haired shiba inu.. I was surprised on this..
I mean long haired shiba are cute and all, but I don't think people need to be breeding for them on purpose.
Found the thread to this..
http://www.dogster.com/forums/Shiba_inu/thread/712997/3
Labeled as a mix. From here (a couple more pictures at the link):
http://asitaka-yamabudou.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2010/03/post-3ab6.html
Also labeled as a mix. From here:
http://kamezo.cc/blog/entry/107592
This guy was the only long-haired at the Kai Ken Appreciation Society meeting, or something like that. I think they think he's pure?:
http://ameblo.jp/kai-sizuku/entry-10512553015.html
Most of what I found were labeled as mixes. I am curious if some of those are actually purebred, since long-haired Shibas are also frequently identified as "mixes" when they're not...?
But that's pretty annoying that someone is breeding the LC Shibas on purpose. Of course I shouldn't be surprised--there are people who breed creams on purpose too. There's always someone who will go out of their way to breed against standard it seems. *sigh*
I have had the pleasure of meeting (and patting!) Ayu and Kori recently- and Ayu, Kori and Juno all have different coats, despite all being red girls and all being related through Mako (Ayu's mom, and Juno and Kori's grandmother). I like the diversity of the working-line kai.
Anyway, its possible that Juno or the dog in the above photo is a carrier and has a slightly plusher coat than non-carriers in the breed. Or maybe its caused by something else entirely. Only way to know would be to DNA test.
I already seen two but I think it's the only two in France (brother and sister). They are beautiful and very dark in color but their coat is so hard to take care of it seems ! ^^
He is more than 10 years old but remains just as affectionate as he was at 6 months old. Currnetly, he has a "summer cut" but when his coat grows back again in winter, I will take a photo and show you.