hokkaido DNA untainted since existence

thegela

I have been speaking to a breeder in Japan, Takada-san, and I've been asking him questions about the Hokkaido, trying to learn more about them. Apparently, the Hokkaido and Ryukyu are only two Japanese breeds that don't have any other dog mixed into their DNA, meaning they're still what they were since ancient times. I found that super fascinating. All other breeds have been mixed with Mongoloid breeds through the Korean peninsula.

And I quote:
"The Mongoloid emigrated to Japan via the Korean Peninsula several thousand years ago and they brought their dogs.

The history of the Japanese breeds is the result that checked the DNA of the dog breeds of Japan and Korea etc.

All Japanese dog breeds except the Hokkaido and the Ryukyu are mixed blood with the dogs of the Mongoloid via the Korean Peninsula."

Not sure if most of you knew this already, and I may be late to the party, but just thought I'd share this!

BradA1878

That's not 100% correct. The Hokkaido and the Ryukyu are the least mixed of the native Japanese breeds, but they were mixed. But they are still mixed (I assume with other native canids - like the Nihon Ōkami and Ezo Ōkami) during the Jomon period.

There was a study done by Yuichi Tanabe, Professor Emeritus at Gifu University, and published in the book "Japanese Dogs" that touched on the migration patters of the early dogs from the Jomon period and their effects on the formation of the Nihon Ken...

"In recent years, studies of the relationships between dog populations in Japan and East Asia have been conducted surveying the frequency of genes controlling blood protein polymorphisms [see chart below]. Research teams from Gifu University and Azabu University took blood samples of indigenous dogs in Japan and of dogs in various countries in East Asia such as Taiwan, Korea, Mongolia, and Indonesia, as well as of dogs in Europe over five thousand dogs in all. Results published in 1991 and 1996 by Professor Yuichi Tanabe of Gifu University and his associates showed that the genetic composition of Japanese and Western breeds differed. They showed that Japanese breeds could be divided into several groups. These groups were as follows: the “A” group includes: the Hokkaido; the Ryukyu; the dogs native to the southern island of Iriomote; and the dogs native to the southern island of Yakushima. The “B” group includes: the San’in Shiba; the dogs native to Tsushima; the Jindo and Chejyudo dogs of Korea; and the native dogs of northern Sakhalin. The “C” group includes: the Akita; the Kai; the Shiba (except the San’in Shiba); the Kishu; the Mikawa; the Shikoku; and the Satsuma. The members of the A group received little genetic impact from later dogs, retaining the genetic composition of the early dogs of the Jomon period. The B group had the strongest genetic impact from the later dogs that were brought into central parts of Japan via the Korean Peninsula in the Yayoi and Kofun periods (300 B.C. – A.D. 650). The C group had received considerable impact from the later dogs, and undergone considerable hybridization."

I actually published part of this study in my PADS article (page 9): http://www.bradanderson.org/blog/2012/03/my-article-on-the-six-native-japanese-dog-breeds-has-been-published/

----

thegela

Oh wicked! That's my bedtime story for tonight! Thank you for correcting and educating

curlytails

Sounds like some racialized biases are filtering into this breeder's story.
Always be skeptical and question such claims, especially when they're using such problematic words like "untainted" ...

MirkaM

@brada1878 Can anyone join the PADS? How it happens, I really would like to join it. And interesting study, everyday I learn something new from this forum .

thegela

@curlytails Oh, I don't know if he meant to be biased because of race, it makes sense that Mongoloid breeds were mixed, since Korea is the closest country to Japan. Also, I think maybe using words like "untainted" is not meant to be offensive or anything. (English isn't his first language).

Although... interestingly enough, after you mentioned "racialized biases" I just checked my last email, and he hasn't responded for days after I mentioned that I was Korean. Hmmm!! (haha. jk)

But you maybe right. He's quite old; 70? (I know many older Koreans have strong opinions about the Japanese) But without this becoming a racial thing, maybe the breeder has his own opinions. Or maybe he hasn't been updated. But he is part of the Hokkaido preservation society in Japan, I'm not sure if that may be the case. But basically I feel like he took @brada1878 's post (that Hokkaido and Ryukyu received little genetic impact compared to other dogs, retaining genes of dogs from Jomon period.) and really pushed to the extreme and instead of little genetic impact, it became "basically no genetic impact".

curlytails

By "racialized" bias, I didn't necessarily mean that this breeder is racist, but that his conception of dog breeds is likened to conceptions of human "races" as separate (and not always equal) categories. It's a very common theme in older dog breed literature, and prevails as an undercurrent to a lot of existing breed histories. It's something to notice, be wary of, and to question, especially in light of evidence as Brad points out that yes -- dogs migrate pretty freely, and they're not exactly going to reject a mate because they reek of peninsular DNA vs. island DNA.

Of course a breeder can think this way and still have wonderful dogs. Just saying that you can always poke holes into these kinds of "exceptional" accounts.

BradA1878

@MirkaM - Yes, anyone can apply to join PADS. Contact Dr. Beregovoy if you are interested in becoming a member: http://www.laikabreeds.com/content/contact-me/

----

thegela

@curlytails sorry! I didn't mean to make him sound like a racist either! Sorry, I just re-read my post, and that's totally not what I meant, but exactly what you meant in your most recent response. Hahaha~ you're much more well spoken than I.

shibamistress

Then there's the issue of "mongoloid" as word choice, which is also problematic (and is not, in fact, how one refers to, say, people from Mongolia). I noticed this, too, Curlytails. Perhaps it's all those years of academic reading.

shishiinu

The word "mongoloid" is a common term in Japan and it doesn't necessarily refer to a specific Asian race or a degrading word. Some use it as a reference to a specific region although I have seen it used in a derogatory term. Our western translation of some words is many times used in a completely different context in places like Japan so just a FIY.

Calia

Mongoloid is also a term used in Physical Anthropology to classify the racial group with "physical traits common in East Asia, Southeast Asia, North Asia, Central Asia, the Americas, the Arctic and parts of the Pacific Islands and South Asia". There's also Caucasoid, Negroid, and I think a few others.