Pet CPR

slkblaze

So last night Sakura swallowed a piece of hard plastic. I tried to fish it out with my finger, but she tilted her head back and I heard a *gulp!*, and thought.. "You've got to be kidding me!". I didn't have much time to see exactly how big it was, in my mind it was pretty large, so I'm kind of freaking out if it had sharp edges or anything like that. I call my vet, and they're about to close in like 2 minutes, and they recommend taking her to the emergency vet and NOT to induce vomiting. I agree... because it could tear her esophagus or she could choke on it coming back up, but they also say I can monitor her and bring her in tomorrow morning when they open at 10am. I decide to monitor her for the time being.. not feeling very good about the idea, but she's acting fine - eats, drinks, plays.

During the night, I'm woken up at 4am by Taki heaving and vomiting bile. Completely unexpected because I was concerned about Sakura. 10 minutes later, Sakura is heaving but nothing is coming up. I offer water, Sakura drinks but Taki wants nothing to do with water or treats. I'm pretty convinced at this point I need to get to the vet's ASAP. So we drive to the emergency vet's office, get checked in, and they analyse Taki first. Turns out she just has a upset tummy (gassy/nauseous), so they give her some fluids, anti-nausea injection and she's good to go. They take Sakura for an x-ray because I told them she swallowed hard plastic. When they give her back to me, they say that she peed in the back, and I should take her out to see if she has to poo. So I do, we walk outside and she sniffs around, spends a looong time squatting and poops. When I pick up her poop, I feel a piece of hard plastic -_-... Turns out she passed it just fine RIGHT after they had taken the x-ray, lol. It was much smaller than I had remembered it, I think my worrisome imagination got away from me..

Anyway, getting to the point of the title, before I let the pups go into the back where all the vet work is done, I had to initial a few times on some paper. One of the initials said that if my pet goes into cardiac arrest, I authorize the vet staff to perform CPR on my pet. I made the comment "Who wouldn't initial this?" and the vet said that she wouldn't have CPR performed on her pet because it's a 50/50 chance of survival if they stop breathing or their heart stops beating. Maybe I missed her point... or maybe she gave another reason that I just didn't take in at that point in time, but I thought that was crazy! I think I would try to exhaust every last resource to keep either pup alive and well.

Well, today was a very expensive "false alarm", but I still feel good about taking them in... I had to sign the same thing when I had Taki spayed, but didn't comment. Is there a reason CPR should NOT be performed? Does it cause permanent damage that affects the quality of life of a pet? I guess I'm wondering if anyone has a comment on if they would or wouldn't initial for the CPR, because the vet also said that about half of the people don't initial there... I think I might be missing something .

Saki

Some people might be concerns for a few broken ribs if CPR is performed. Personally, I'd rather have my dog with a few broken ribs then dead.

cezieg

What @Sachi said pretty much. That's kind of redundant imo and should fall under emergency care given to save the pet. I'm glad your pups are safe!

lindsayt

I thought it was a given that, like with children, you would want to exhaust all options if such a crisis occurred. Not doing CPR doesn't make sense to me, unless the pet is very old. Worst thing to happen (next to death of the pet), is permanent brain damage. Broken ribs and punctured lungs and lacerated internal organs are not great, but if the pet can recover and be comfortable, I would do it.

Calia

Some people with flat faced or bug eyed dogs may also refuse the use of CPR on their dogs. With these breeds, there's a greater risk of the eyes actually popping out when too much pressure is applied. Sometimes that could cause complications that may require the dog to be euthanized anyways, so CPR kind of winds up being a wasted effort.

Heidi

50/50... those aren't the worst odds. I dunno... you can always put them down later, so you may as well try.

*JackBurton*

I'm a little surprised the she talked about CPR when your chief complaint was an abstructed airway. Sadly the success rate for CPR without an AED is not very good.

slkblaze

Kind of a depressing topic, but I was genuinely shocked by the vet's response that she wouldn't have her own dog revived.

@cezieg @lindsayt Yeah.. I think it would be common sense to try to revive a pet.. but I can see if they are very old or very ill...

@*JackBurton* For some reason I had "mouth-to-mouth" in mind instead of an AED, but they probably use that... out of curiosity, I looked up a video on how to perform CPR on a dog and this was the first result:


I guess it's good to know

Derf

I'm not a veterinarian, but my guess would be that it's similar to doing CPR on a person. Of course you would want CPR for a young, otherwise healthy pet but some people may be bringing in a pet that is terminally ill or very old. The owner of such a pet may want to just let their pet pass on peacefully rather than have it go through the trauma of CPR. The reasoning is probably similar to why some humans chose to sign a DNR (do not resuscitate).

Edit: Just watched this video. In humans, they are actually now saying to begin chest compressions before giving rescue breaths. Data has shown people have a better chance of total recovery when chest compressions are initiated quickly. Maintaining circulation is really the key to effective CPR.

*JackBurton*

OK CPR Lesson Time:

Yes the current practice is to do compression over breaths. So instead of A-B-C (Airway Breathing Circulation) you are now doing C-A-B (Circulation Airway Breathing). In bystander CPR, it is down to just compressions. Here is the big reason for this... the portable AED machine has become quite common place. For the bystanders, it takes out the yucky of lip locking someone.

I could go on and on into the science of this but this is how I teach our recert classes. Think of your heart as a sponge and all of the sudden someone squeezes all the fluid out of the sponge. After that event you need to get more fluid back into the sponge and let it fill up. The heart is the same way, you need to "fill"(compressions-pumping) the heart back up with fluid. Otherwise when AED comes up, you are going to shock an empty vessel and burn it. <---- Think about it the fluid helps prevent a sponge/heart from burning.

What is an AED? Most answers is that it starts the heart up. Technically that is incorrect. Your heart has stopped or frozen or it could be said it has a blue screen of death. The best way to fix Blue Screen of Death is to hit "Crtl + Alt + Del" and then the heart can reboot. That is what your AED does.

So how does this help dogs. Well it doesn't unless you have an AED with pads setup for dogs ready to go. If not we are stuck with the basic issue that was brought up. The OP dog has an obstructed airway not a stopped heart. The dog's heart would have to stop from a lack of o2 entering the system before CPR will help. So the person is right by the time most people attempt CPR on a pet the pet has been without o2 for a significant amount of time. The person is wrong because they have no idea how long that pet has not been circulating. Could be 1 min or 30 mins. SO CPR would be advised. In the case above, the airway still needs to be cleared.

My gut feeling on the waiver is this. As a medic and EMT we have Title 22 to protect us. Which protects us as long as we are not negligent. For the general public there is Good Samaritan. Which protects you for the most part even if you hurt the person. My guess is that there isn't a pet version of this, or if there is, it isn't very strong. Hence the waiver. People never make you sign things because it is a 50/50. People have waivers because someone somewhere got sued.