Yamabushi no Orry (Sept 2015)
As I mentioned in my intro, we recently had the privilege of bringing home a Nio x Ayu pup. We named him Orry, which has a few meanings, but the one we were drawn to is "Bear." This especially stuck after seeing a few pics that Brad and Jen posted on Facebook...the pups definitely looked like little cubs. After having Orry for over a week now, his name seems very fitting. He has an even-keeled way about him but he's a very brave little guy when he needs to be. The other night he had no problem standing his ground and confidently meeting a Great Dane that approached out of the dark from my neighbor's yard, which I was very impressed by.
Anyway, so far Orry has been an exceptional pup. House training, friendliness with both people and dogs, walks, etc. have all gone very well. We are extremely stoked to have him! The hardest thing so far has definitely been the hard puppy biting that my two young daughters are not so fond of. We've tried lots of re-direction, yelps, and ignoring him, but I think time will be the main thing that helps this....he's still so young and he does seem to learn well. If anyone has a magic formula to solve this, I'd love to get some advice. It's especially difficult when he gets ultra hyper for short periods of time and is hard to calm down. Like I said though, he's overall pretty calm for a pup and we couldn't be more thrilled with him. He's doing great.
Here are some pics of Orry. Some are a little dark and out of focus, but I think these show his look pretty well. It was so hard to get a straight on shot, so my daughter had to help on the first one.
First day of harness training during a typical Montana winter day. He loves the snow!
For some reason, he looks a little "Nio-ish" to me in this pic, although it's a bit blurry.
When he sleeps, he's out!
Thanks to Brad and Jen and their Yamabushi Kennel for such a great pup!
Anyway, so far Orry has been an exceptional pup. House training, friendliness with both people and dogs, walks, etc. have all gone very well. We are extremely stoked to have him! The hardest thing so far has definitely been the hard puppy biting that my two young daughters are not so fond of. We've tried lots of re-direction, yelps, and ignoring him, but I think time will be the main thing that helps this....he's still so young and he does seem to learn well. If anyone has a magic formula to solve this, I'd love to get some advice. It's especially difficult when he gets ultra hyper for short periods of time and is hard to calm down. Like I said though, he's overall pretty calm for a pup and we couldn't be more thrilled with him. He's doing great.
Here are some pics of Orry. Some are a little dark and out of focus, but I think these show his look pretty well. It was so hard to get a straight on shot, so my daughter had to help on the first one.
First day of harness training during a typical Montana winter day. He loves the snow!
For some reason, he looks a little "Nio-ish" to me in this pic, although it's a bit blurry.
When he sleeps, he's out!
Thanks to Brad and Jen and their Yamabushi Kennel for such a great pup!
Comments
I must say I am a little uneasy by the photos of a Kai off leash in the street, after having so many bolt and get lost recently...
Love the brindle on him too.
What I tell my daughter is to give him a Yes- as in no, you cant bite my hands/toes, etc, you should bite THIS- and stick a toy/chewy etc right in front of him. If the yelping isnt working, dont do it anymore. Sometimes it just makes everything more exciting and hyper. (or in the case of my husband, an unconvicning actor, the dog just doent buy it- "really? you say that hurt you? You didnt *sound* serious..." munch) I am fortunate to have 3 other dogs for Matsu to practice bite inhibition on, BUT...I still spend QUIET time letting him softly mouth my hand and giving him information. (this is not for kids! For the dog's clarity- "no mouthing kids" needs to be blacking and white. this is just a Matsu and me quiet-time activity. not a crazy-time activity.) If he is mouthing softly, I speak to him softly and rub his gums even. If he presses hard, I tell him - AH! and he'll usually stop and look at me and I let him mouth my hand gently some more. After a few minutes, I offer him a rope toy, or a puppy chew bone and transfer him over and he'll relax and chew that. (for the duration of his puppy attention span, anyway!)
Another simple game, for kids, is to teach "kisses". An easy way to to this is to rub a little butter on the kids palms and fingers and have them holding their fingers together, palm open. Call him over to lick the butter on their hands and say Kisses, good boy! Good Kisses! He will WANT to lick, not bite. When he seems about done licking, direct him into some other play (ie. dont just watch him stop licking and see what he wants to do next- in that moment where the pup thinks "what do I do? I dont know, I guess I'll do ....THIS!" you suggest any non-biting game, so he does Kisses! and then Ball or a walk or something. He needs to see that Kisses is it's own thing, a good thing, and isnt part of Chomping, which is something else and isnt allowed.
He will need to chew stuff badly for several months as he teethes, so think of it that you are teaching "what do i do when my mouth feels this way?" and establishing a default choice for him. Protocol!
When we got Juno, she liked to play rough pouncing and 'attack' biting, jumping at my face if i was sitting. Ending play can be very effective- standing up Game Over, but when she took advantage of opportunities, so I did finally have to take a cue from my older dog's book and roar at her NO! like I REALLY meant it (and its how i felt getting bit on the nose in that moment) and she understood and toned things down. Take it out on your plushy toys, pup, because no matter how much I love you and how cute you are, that is a game we will not play! Puppies need reminders, once you teach them something, (make sure they know it first! not fair to 'remind' them of something they dont understand) so expect to continue to redirect him onto toys, anticipate if he seems like 'this is when he gets bitey', and try to appreciate that he stopped biting more quickly this time after, or wow, he is using thebone more ("Youget what you pet" and "catch him being good" are important phrases at our house. If I see the pup chewing his bone, especially when noone told him to- he just chose it- I go over and give him enough loving to let him know I think hes a *really* good & smart boy, but not so much attention that he leaves the bone completely and refocuses on me. Its a fine line, which is why it's a science AND an art! I want him to know that relaxing with a good bone is AOK!
Yeah... we got bitten a lot during Goro's first few weeks... It was painful and we still have a few marks!
We did a few things one of them was putting a treat (we used kibble) in our hand and closing our hand in a fist around it. If he bit at my hand I would correct him with "A-AH" and say "Kiss". He would bite 10 times and give 1 lick and when he did I would praise him with a very happy "good boy" and give him the kibble in my hand. After a couple of days of this (painful) exercise he was able to give licks on command. It did not eliminate biting completely, but he figured out that biting gets him a "A-AH" and licking get him a reward. Another thing that we realized what not to try to play with him when he was super excited from playing with ChoCho... he just wanted to transfer that energy to his month and my legs. I know you shouldn't run away because they will just think you're playing, but I ran up on chairs and the couch a lot! hahahaha He was a monster...
Overall puppy biting is a pain (literally). It will pass, but it's important to establish rules when they are young.
@WrylyBrindle Thanks for all of the suggestions! These are very helpful. I've already noticed after a week of redirection that the duration of his bitey period has shortened. It's pretty much down to his hyper spurts, usually in the am, and after he's played with another dog. The yelps worked at first, but like your husband, he especially stopped buying it with me. I think he started to think it was a game...not good! He's probably a little young for "Leave It" but surprisingly he seems to respond to it when he's locked on to our pant legs, but only when he thinks I have a treat in my hand. I'm afraid he's sort of a smart little pup (or maybe Kai are just smarter than the dogs I'm used to), which is good and bad, lol.
@poeticdragon Yeah, I hear what you're saying about the off leash thing. However, although that looks like a street, it's more like our driveway. We live at the end of a cul-de-sac and don't really have any traffic. I read about the missing Kai and their tendency to bolt before getting our pup, so I'm aware of this issue. In fact, this is why I plan to do as much off leash training at a young age as is possible. Orry will be my hiking companion, and I hope he'll adjust to being able to do this both on and off leash. I don't want to him to grow up having only spent outside time on a leash. My fear is that there will inevitable be a time when he's outside without a leash, and I don't want him to "freak out" because he's never experienced it before. Instead, I'm hoping that by training him young he'll maintain his composure in these situations. I'm realistic though, and if he shows a tendency to be a "bolter" we'll adjust. In talking with Brad, it sounds like both Nio and Ayu are pretty good off leash so I'm hoping this was passed down. Trust me, the last thing I want to do is lose this pup...I've already grown quite attached.
@MontanaKai I have a 3 1/2 year old male Kai who has been off leash since he was four months old. He would never bolt, and I don't worry about him. My parents have a 4 year old female Kai mix who is great off leash. She's a hunter and will go off a bit, but always finds her way back.
I have a 7 month old female who feels like she never has to listen to me. She stays on leash. I know that everyone says that we should keep our Kais on leash, but I'm not sure where they got that reputation in the US, from one breed line or breeder? The fact is they are hunting dogs, and are meant to be off leash working with humans. I think that it's definitely do-able. Even though my little monster is horrible, I'm sure she will be able to hike with me off leash someday. I just haven't worked with her enough.
I gotten these ID tag for Saya and Bella I like them as they're attached to the collar can be put on harness too.
http://www.boomerangtags.com/store/list.php?A=collars
This is how the ID looks I just drew over my phone and address.. hehe
I figure they'd hold up better if the dogs go into the woods then the dangling type tags as it might get stuck on a tree or bramble..
Saya my shiba does well off leash, but I've been working on it pretty early it was long line at first when I did chores and couldn't watch her she enjoyed dragging it around and exploring. I eventually worked up to some off leash time once her response was better on recall.
Be sure to work some on recall daily make it fun. I love hide in seek game Bella loves doing it.
I seen this dvd recommended for working on recall not sure if it's good I really nee get it to see..
http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=dtb810p
Teaching command leave it, drop it is good in case the dog is going to eat some animal poop or gotten something. Coarse sometimes it's too late..
Saya dropped a thing of deer poop she was off leash walking in the trails she was behind a bit sniffing and I saw her pick up something so I said drop it. Luckily she did and she coarse got a dog treat for doing it.
I use fish fudge, string cheese, dehydrated meat, ziwipeak dog food for recall treats. I try rotate so it's a mix of it or something different each time..
Each dog is different on what they consider high value in rewards.
I have a squirrel pelt and also a flirt pole and Saya gets to play with that as a reward too.
Saya is food motivated so treats works much better for her recall reward.
I live in the country so I have decent bit of space to practice it. Shiba aren't really good off leash due to their independent nature and ability to have shiba selective hearing.
I'm glad both parent's do well off leash maybe that will help.
I'm fine with working off leash, but be sure an collar and id tag is on in case something happens.
I sometimes take collar off for pictures and then once done I put it back on.
I'm so used to the puppy biting thing I don't really notice it, but I know how hard it can be to manage around kids. Everyone already gave good input, so I don't have much to add. I will say that the way I deal with it with our dogs is to just leave if they mouth me. So they learn that if they put their mouth on "dad" he leaves. This seems to work pretty well as the mouthing is typically an attention seeking behavior and if the bite make the attention go away, the pup learns that it's not working.
About him having a little puppy zoomie freak-out. When he gets that way and is being too nuts, pick him up and put him in his crate with a chew or something. He'll probably pass out - like with a child - it's probably a sign he needs a nap.
Keep the pics coming!
PS: RE: the great dane... Orry was probably like "psst... you don't scare me, I used to beat up on a CO when I was younger!" ;o)
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Considering how many dogs you have, I'd say they were really well behaved in our meeting. The only one I can honestly remember really trying to get my attention was Kishin. It was in a playful way though so I didn't mind at all. He's a super cool dog.
I'll definitely get some more pictures up as Orry grows. Next time I'm going to get some help from our friend who is a photography. She has a very nice camera...these were taken with my phone.
@Saya Those tags are great. We have a little shop in our town called Hattie Rex that just opened, and they make custom tags just like that. We bought one for Orry, but it's a little big for him right now. Thanks for the dvd link!
Thanks all for the helpful training suggestions!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1755945340571&set=a.1664606777164.80079.1297085320&type=3&theater
I recall her, and train her to "come," "wait," and 'follow' commands: "This Way!" and "Let's Go!" I meniton the auto check in because it is so easy to take it for granted, or to say "yeah but Simon Didnt Say"- when in actual fact anytime the dog does something you want to see again, reinforcing it is the most powerful way to ensure you WILL see it again! So, when we are in the woods to this DAY, and Juno breaks off her hunting action to come say hi to me, she gets pats and talk 100% of the time and a variable small food reward as well. (Reilly will play me for the snacks, but Juno isnt a pest about it.) Remember that a variable reinforcer maintains the surprise factor and is the most powerful tool in R+ training.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3501993950695&set=a.1664606777164.80079.1297085320&type=3&theater
When I felt Juno had earned my trust time and again I graduated her to her blaze orange collar and bell, and retired the long line. With the bell I can hear her, which is important to my serenity
@WrylyBrindle - I kept meaning to ask you the name of your leash again - Kunai is due for one
Juno looks like such a great dog. It sounds like you've put in a lot of time with her....that's awesome. I love the idea of using a variable food reward by the way. I've been using the same treats with Orry for the past week and I never thought to change it up yet. I could tell he was much more receptive when I first starting using them. It makes sense...the surprise factor! Thanks for the tip.
I believe that's a picture of Matsu on your signature line. He looks awesome! Can't wait to see more of Orry's brother.
I wish Saya's siblings were on the shiba forum would been nice to see how they grown up looks and personality.. I only met one of Saya's brother he was vocal pup. hehe
I love Nihon ken pups hope to see more pictures.
Saya was mouthy as a pup, but now she doesn't mouth and if she does it's soft, but not often it's only when she greets my mom she gets over excited and happy to see her.
re: variable rewards- sometimes its diff treats, but its also diff amts of treats. So 100% of the time they get my attention, happy talk and pats, 95% of the time they get a small treat- like 1 little zukes mini. But once a walk or so, randomly, they get a repeat delivery of one, another and another zukes mini, before I say "Okay, Let's go!" and release them. In this way, they also stick around and give you eye contact and dont just watch the hand get the treat and blast off again, because there *might* be an extra treat coming. When they hear "Okay, Let's go" the treats are done, and YAY! I can go back to sniffing & hiking!
Another tip is to build-in a collar touch - so you call them, they come and maybe sit if you require it, but as the treat is coming (and later before the treat comes) while you are giving a quick pat, touch and gently handle the collar. When hes eating the treat, let it go. This gets them used to you taking their collar and prevents the "I'll come *this* close to see if you have treats/grab the treat and bolt away." If you practice this in your recalls, it sets you up really well for when you have to call him and leash him, he wont spook that you have his collar or reach near his head. We may have to do this quickly in an emergency someday and nothing is worse than the dog flciking away or panicking.
In addition, whenever you call him and its a really great performance, like you call him away from a distraction or a danger- JACKPOT REWARDS!
At puppy class trainer sent home work for owners one was getting the puppy used to having collar grabed.
I worked with Saya and Bella with it and it's worked well.
My neighbor's lab/mastiff mix is very dodgey she won't let me pet her.
She dodges almost like she thinks I'm going to hit her.
Her owners can't really control her or get leash on her easily when she is off leash.
It's sad.
It makes me happy I worked with the dogs and they come to me or doesn't flee from me if I come over to pet them or put leash on them.
I hope things work out with him.
Puppies grows up too fast I miss how small and silly Saya was.
The good news is that I found a really good 5 week puppy course for Orry to take. Bozeman is a pretty pet oriented community and it sounds like the trainer knows her stuff...she apparently has some popular books out (one specifically about hiking w/dogs!!) so we're excited to get going. I've grown up with dogs my whole life but it's been quite some time since I've raised a pup. The course should be nice refresher.
The other good news is that Orry's biting was less today than yesterday and yesterday was less than the day before...we're liking this trend. Maybe it's because he loves his toys so much, like this one, lol:
Love the intense stare.
It's rare to find Orry outside without a good amount of snow on his noes like in the above photo...I think he actually enjoys it.
He really did his best to pose for the "above the fireplace" pic, lol.
Showing his deep love of the Montana winter!
Orry is growing up nicely.
Orry looks great!