dog vs wolf

jellyfish

Basically. What are the specific differences between a wolf and a dog?

I find it super facinating that through domestication, humans made another species of animal. (Of course it was a little more complicated that that) The post about wolves evolving to dogs because they were able to digest starches as an evolutionary advantage is very intruiging and it spurred this thought. So what else?

What im looking for is more like, what are the more scientifically, more specific differences between wolves and dogs?

For instance, all dogs have the same set of genes, but the variances happen because genes are turned on and off: thus: dog breeds. At what point do the genes change so drastically that the dog becomes another species? What is the 1% genetic difference between wolves and dogs?

Ive always hated people comparing wolves to dogs as if they interchangeable, and my argument has always been: wolves are as similar to dogs as gorillas are to humans. It puts things in perspective, but I guess I just want a little more meat on my arguement when people like breeding wolves to dogs. Ugh.

rikumom

From the institute on dog research that gets featured on Animal Planet all the time:
http://familydogproject.elte.hu/wolf_dog.html

*JackBurton*

Well based on new scientific data the difference is pasta.

CarabooA

I read a Nat. Geo article on this a few weeks ago with the Siberian foxes, I haven't looked to see if it's been brought up on here before, so please forgive me if it has. I found the info to be very interesting - I think these are the correct links:

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/03/taming-wild-animals/ratliff-text/2

http://www.bionet.nsc.ru/booklet/Engl/EnglLabaratories/LabEvolutionaryGeneticsAnimalsEngl.html

One of the things I found interesting was that with the fox they were finding actual physical characteristics that coincided with the fox that were being chosen for their "tame" qualities... ie: floppier ears, mottling in their coloring ..etc.... anyway, the scientists were saying that the domesticated foxes that they were keeping and breeding in their program were comparable temperament wise to many of the domestic dogs that we have today. So they aren't "wild and then tamed" but truly domesticated.

cdenney

@carabooa pbs has a special on dogs that was well done and they went to the facility and looked at the foxes on this study where they were also putting the "tame" kits with the extra wild to see personality changes etc. And realized behavior is breeding more than socialization (at least what I remember) I highly recommend checking it out if your ever stuck indoors looking for something to do.

CarabooA

Cool, I'll do that! @cdenney - Yeah, I found it pretty fascinating and from what I read (admitting not all information on what they do was in the article, of course) it seemed like they really cared for the fox that they were breeding for domestication... I know the ones that stayed feral were ummm ... taken down a different path, shall we say but all in all treated humanely (I hope anyway, that's what I gathered)

lindsayt

Dogs are a subspecies. Humans can't mate with apes.

oddball

Here is a link to a wolf breeder out here in Texas.
http://www.freewebs.com/wolfhavenspiritofthepast/

I almost bought one a few years ago. I found out that while they are legal to own as pets here in Texas, my township outlawed them. Maybe down the road when I can afford some acreage outside of town, I may get one.

Saya

They call the pups cubs..

"Wolves generally do not have health problems and do not get diseases easily. They can live 25 years or longer. They generally do not smell nor get fleas or ticks."

"Hypo-Allergenic
Can be very good with kids and people
Very protective "

"The wolf is the lion of the North. They are called that because they are descendants from the same lineage as lions.
Their eyes are that of a lion brown color and a thick mane runs around their neck and down their back. Females have shorter hair than males.
They also have a cat-like bone structure. They can collapse and dislocate their joints."

Same lineage as lions? They have cat like bone structure? Can collapse and dislocate their joints? Wow! The pure wolves at wolf park doesn't do this.

"They carry no heart worm or dog diseases, they do not have inherited diseases or the health problems likes dogs from inbreeding."

Umm wolves can get heartworm and diseases..

This stands out for me..

"No raw meat"
But they are wolf dogs don't wolves eat meat in the wild?

Wolves at the wolfpark in battleground feeds raw deer, rabbit, and sometimes young cow. Their oldest wolf was 19 and another 18.. The 19 year old died sadly.

"They rarely get fleas because their skin is so thick."

This wolf dog breeder doesn't seem good to me..

Seen this post..
http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/75843-help-shut-down-wolfhaven.html

Sorry to turn this a bit off topic just thought I'd share my thoughts on this breeder. She has been talked about on dogster and few other places..

I've met in person a high content wolf dog and I can tell this pup was high wolf, but the ones I seen in this breeders site doesn't seem too high.

Some are red like huskys, black and white and stuff.

oddball

Yeah i didnt quite believe everything on their site. One of my friends had one of their wolves and seemed quite happy with them though. Had sent them a few emails back when i was interested in getting a wolf, but never took them too seriously.

shibamistress

We may have a thread on wolf dogs around here somewhere, but getting a wolf or high content wolf-dog is a seriously bad idea. They are not dogs, and don't act like dogs, and most people who get them end up trying, desperately, to find a place to rehome them (or they are often euthanized.) Bad idea.

oddball

I agree to a point. I think they are bad for anyone who lives in or near a city. I live in a fairly rural area where wolf-dog hybrids are pretty popular and most have no complaints about them. They say that they are good for scaring away coyotes. I don't know if that's true or not though. Have coyotes by my house and they wont any come closer than a couple hundred yards. I think that they are more interested in the goat and chicken farm down the street. People do need to understand that wolf-dogs are not like normal dogs and treat them as such.

redcattoo

I don't know if this article I posted on the Shiba side was posted over here, but I found it interesting regarding early socialization of why wolves are forever wild but dogs are able to be tamed. So I apologize if this is a repost for this side.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/130117152012.htm

shibamistress

If they are low content wolf dogs--more dog than wolf--perhaps. But high content? Bad idea. they don't even act like dogs, not at all. My mother had some, and her oldest (high content) "dog" was basically just a wolf, who never managed to adjust to what most people would think of as normal dog life: he couldn't ride in the car, he didn't know his name, he couldn't even be in the house. He was, for his entire life, skittish, and entirely not dog like. (A funny example: when he met my Shiba who was a puppy at the time, he regurgitated his food for my puppy.)

I suppose the thing about coyotes might be true: except for the puppies, and one malamute mix my mom had, all other dogs were afraid of him. He didn't even smell like a dog, not even to me with my much less sensitive human nose.

The people who work with wolves and wolf dogs, esp. in rescue, are pretty adamant that it's a bad idea, and that's based on years of experience.

@redcattoo....I did post in here somewhere....Maybe in a socialization thread? but it's applicable to this discussion for sure.

Crispy

I just looked at that "wolfdog breeder".


I feel like a horrible person for laughing at some of this misinformation (or blatant lies?). None of their dogs look wolfy to me, either. I wouldn't be surprised if these are just mongrel dogs being sold for a pretty penny to the uneducated (which seems common in the "wolfdog" world?).


Sort of back on topic - I really liked the Hungarian project with the wolf vs. dog nature/nurture thing when I'd first heard about it. I thought it was dumb at first (why bother raising a wolf in an environment like that?)... but it was still interesting to follow.

cdenney

Maybe I was reading that wolf/dog/lion-mill wrong but I'm pretty damn sure she's claiming to have an extinct line of tundra wolves. Really, really?! I noticed there's a lot of no refund warnings and Eden we come under attack messages. I'm pretty sure someone had a DNA test and got back a husky collie mix or coyote mix given how often that's posted.

Yandharr

As a fellow scientist, I support @*jackBurton* assessment

I have a friend that has a wolf preserve. He respects them, they recognize him, but he does not dare treat them like dogs.